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Time for a fuel filter methinks =P

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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Time for a fuel filter methinks =P Reply with quote
See pics attatched. That's the state of the carb on my '72 Honda PC50... No wonder she kept cutting out on me!
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 11:56 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
That first pic isn't clean enough really. You need to get rid of ALL of the particles of rust in there.

You also need to take the fuel tank and clean and seal it using Petseal or POR15 or something, otherwise you'll just keep having the same problem.

Fuel filters don't really work that well on rust, because rust breaks down into particles which can get through the weave in the filter. A fuel filter will help, but it won't cure the problem.

I'd reccomend using the POR15 fuel tank repair kit, and starting with Marine Clean and then Metal ready. This may actually ruin your tank though because it might be more rust than metal...
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
it might be more rust than metal...


The tank doesnt seem TOO bad when I look in it. It could be a LOT worse, there are the odd patches of surface rust forming inside
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



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PostPosted: 13:59 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Steven_191 used this stuff that converts the rusty back to normal metal or something, It wasn't cheap but did a good job, I'll find out what it is.
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chris-red
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
This was the stuff.

https://www.evaporust.com/evaporust.html

Apparently you can order it in the UK by calling this number 01923828395 Thumbs Up
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Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 14:10 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Steven_191 used this stuff that converts the rusty back to normal metal or something, It wasn't cheap but did a good job, I'll find out what it is.


It doesn't do that, it converts the iron oxide to zinc oxide + iron which is soluble I think. It sounds very similar to POR15 Metal Ready which I used on my FZR fuel tank this weekend with some good results. The main downside is that if there is no real steel left in the tank (just rust) which can happen at the seams etc, then you'll just make loads of holes in the tank by using it.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 14:13 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
chris-red wrote:
Steven_191 used this stuff that converts the rusty back to normal metal or something, It wasn't cheap but did a good job, I'll find out what it is.


You probably mean phosphoric acid. Iron III oxide dissolves well in phosphoric acid whilst iron (i.e. the steel) doesn't. You dissolve the rusty layers and the remaining steel is left with a black layer of ferric phosphate that can be rubbed off easily to give bare metal to paint etc without it just rusting through again.

Rust remover gels usually use phosphoric acid Thumbs Up . The only feasible way to convert rust to metal is electrolysis.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'll tell you what really cleans off that last bit of varnished-on cruddy stuff. Soak it in acetone (nail varnish remover) for half an hour then drop it into a pan of boiling water. The rest of the crud sort of fluffs up and will wipe off with a rag soaked in more acetone.

Do not get acetone on any of the rubber seals!

Also, if the float bowl is like that, the needle jet emulsion tube and main jet will need a damned good clean out too.

I can't remember if there is a fuel tap on those. If there is, it will be in a similar state. Careful not to loose the end of the fuel hose, it is a total bastard to thread back through the frame. If you're replacing the fuel line. Attach the new one to the end of the old one and use that to pull it through.
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
EVAPO-RUST works at a pH of 6.1 to 7 (neutral) through selective chelation. This is a process in which a large synthetic molecule forms a bond with metals and holds them in solution. Most chelating agents bind many different metals. The active ingredient in EVAPO-RUST bonds to iron exclusively. It can remove iron from iron oxide, but is too weak to remove iron from steel because the iron is held much more strongly.


No Acid, and it is re-usable.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes stinkwheel, There is a fuel tap, But only on/off. No Res.
Cleaned out all the nooks and crannies in the carb. And the tube, and the jets... Everything that I could reach with a toothbrush and blow through with my mouth.
And yes, The fuel hose looks like a bitch to thread through
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 14:44 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
EVAPO-RUST works at a pH of 6.1 to 7 (neutral) through selective chelation. This is a process in which a large synthetic molecule forms a bond with metals and holds them in solution. Most chelating agents bind many different metals. The active ingredient in EVAPO-RUST bonds to iron exclusively. It can remove iron from iron oxide, but is too weak to remove iron from steel because the iron is held much more strongly.


This is not chemically accurate. In fact, it's nonsense. Iron oxide is a hugely stable molecule and it's production is a third order reaction. Once it's formed an oxide it takes a huge amount of energy to reduce the iron ions. The enthalpy curve is very steep indeed.

There are highly specific chelating agents that will intercept the iron ions before they form an oxide but once the rust has formed, you need either a blast furnace or thermite reaction to turn it back into iron again. Massively caustic chemicals can disassosciate the iron ions onto a different salt (strong hydrochloric or nitric acid will do it and dissolve the rest of the metal while they're at it). Acaetic acid does it to a lesser extent and iron acetate is a soluable salt which is why vinegar can help loosen rust a little.

They're probably using hexacyanoferrate as a chelating agent which would appear as green, turning to a vivid blue colour in the presence of rust.

It is possible that a chelating agent could loosen rust by forming a soluable compound at the point where the new rust is forming. This is pretty much what happens with the electrolysis technique. I can't think of any chemical or electrolytic means of turning rust back into iron that does not involve the expenditure of huge amounts of energy.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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SpannerMonkey
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Something scientific...


Yes... I agree... Shallow AND pedantic...
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 15:14 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
spannermonkey91 wrote:
Yes... I agree... Shallow AND pedantic...


Just cos you don't understand what he just said! Razz
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.
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SpannerMonkey
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Joined: 26 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
spannermonkey91 wrote:
Yes... I agree... Shallow AND pedantic...


Just cos you don't understand what he just said! Razz


I understand bits... Havent done science since I left school. I did get 2xA* for it though ;D
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chris-red
Have you considered a TDM?



Joined: 21 Sep 2005
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Quote:
EVAPO-RUST works at a pH of 6.1 to 7 (neutral) through selective chelation. This is a process in which a large synthetic molecule forms a bond with metals and holds them in solution. Most chelating agents bind many different metals. The active ingredient in EVAPO-RUST bonds to iron exclusively. It can remove iron from iron oxide, but is too weak to remove iron from steel because the iron is held much more strongly.


This is not chemically accurate. In fact, it's nonsense. Iron oxide is a hugely stable molecule and it's production is a third order reaction. Once it's formed an oxide it takes a huge amount of energy to reduce the iron ions. The enthalpy curve is very steep indeed.

There are highly specific chelating agents that will intercept the iron ions before they form an oxide but once the rust has formed, you need either a blast furnace or thermite reaction to turn it back into iron again. Massively caustic chemicals can disassosciate the iron ions onto a different salt (strong hydrochloric or nitric acid will do it and dissolve the rest of the metal while they're at it). Acaetic acid does it to a lesser extent and iron acetate is a soluable salt which is why vinegar can help loosen rust a little.

They're probably using hexacyanoferrate as a chelating agent which would appear as green, turning to a vivid blue colour in the presence of rust.

It is possible that a chelating agent could loosen rust by forming a soluable compound at the point where the new rust is forming. This is pretty much what happens with the electrolysis technique. I can't think of any chemical or electrolytic means of turning rust back into iron that does not involve the expenditure of huge amounts of energy.


No idea, all I know is it worked.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.
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stonesie
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 04 Apr 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Try this

https://www.bilthamber.com/pro-introduction.php?cname=Corrosion%20Removal&name=fuel%20tank%20cleaning%20kit

Thier products are usually bloody good Thumbs Up
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