Noob question 600cc vs 1000cc

[Andy J]

I was wondering if there's much point in having a 1000cc bike instead of a 600cc bike.. (Sport bike that is) Cuz on a 600 there's too much power to be fully utilized a lot of the time isn't there? e.g. flipping the bike - So wouldn't a 1000cc not really make much difference unless your going at speeds of say 80mph+?? Wouldn't the 600 generally be bit a lighter as well making it handle better?

Like i said, total noob question just curious?

[Teflon-Mike]

There is only a 'notional' corrolation between an engine's cubic capacity, and how fast it goes, or how it performs on the road....
Strictly, Power = Cylinder Pressure x Engine Displacement x Engine revs
And Speed = Power / Drag (not strictly scientific, if you do the maths you get some units of time left over, but good enough for this example!)

Drag is pretty much proportional to frontal area, and at reasonably legal speeds, aerodynamics don't have that much influence, for motorcycles, and the frontal area of most bikes is much of a much, the size of a person, unless that have a huge barn door fairing.
So for any given road speed, the power USED (as opposed to the power avialable) is much the same.....

So, my Honda CB125 Twin, max power a laughable 12.5bhp at 10,800rpm, geared for 70mph at those revs, is just about on the limit, using all its available horses, throttle held against the stop, screaming its nuts off to do it.

My CB750, with about 75bhp available, makes 12.5bhp at probably 2000rpm, so I could probably do 70 at little more than tick over, with the throttle wound all the way open, with tall enough gearing... more practically, I can do 70 in top, holiding about 5,500 revs, just off the cam, with barely a wiff of throtttle.

600 R6, makes what these days, about 110bhp? that's probably as much if not more than plenty of litre bikes.

Its certainly close enough to make little odds to my old VF....... difference is, while the 600 has that much 'peak' power, from the smaller capacity engine, its making most of that power from revs, rather than cubes, where my old war horse is making most of its power from cubes not revs.

Hence everywhere else in the rev range APART from max power revs.... VF is probably able to provide far more useful force to the back wheel.

R6, therfore has a 'peaky' power delivery, urging lots or revs, working the gearbox, and urging a 'full on' riding style.... old VF, well, it will pull away from a set of traffic lights in TOP with a little clutch slip... and you can stick it in third and treat it like an automatic. You don't have to work the bike to make it move, and its a lot easier to actually ride slower.

Extra weight of a litre bike also changes that charecter. Lighter bikes can change direction more readily, but that doesn't necesserily mean they handle 'better'. Extra weight adds 'stability' they are harder to deflect from a given line..... so they can be set up to suit the more 'lazy' riding style a bigger engine allows, or they can, like an R1, be set up even MORE 'flighty' in their geometry than you could with a lighter R6, so that they respond faster even though they have more mass to move doing it.

Its got very little to do with the performance stats, or the power they make or how much of their capability that any one might be able to actually 'exploit'....

Bikes have lots of 'capabilities' and going fast is only one of them. Lots of thier capabilities are actually mutually exclusive, like best MPG and top speed, so NO ONE can 'exploit' a bike to its 'full' capability, becouse if they use all of one commodity they ent going to be getting another......

SO.... its all about the bikes 'charecter' and how they do what they do.....

And for all the machismo about litre bikes, and awful lot of it IS pure machismo, and ironically, the fact that the bigger engine, with more power provided by cubic capacity than by revs, making more power available in the low and mid range....... actually often makes them EASIER to ride, certainly to ride SLOWER than smaller revier bikes!

Answer your question?
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[Andy J]

I think I understand, that's some quite technical stuff . Gonna read it once more

[mad4it028]

basicly 600 s have very little power/grunt at low revs so you have to work alot harder to ride fast ,where a 1000cc has lots of grunt right through the rev range making it very easy to ride fast or slow for eg
on a 600cc bimbling along at 50mph in 6th gear on a country lane and all of a suden you buddy in front blasts off you will need to go down 2 maybe even 3 gears to keep up , on a 1000cc even in 6th just crank open the throttle and your away
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[Ben.]

1000cc's are more stable and you generally strain the engine less.

To be honest when your pinning it theres little difference in feel between a 1000 and a 600. The only difference is you tend to catch them with ease on straight roads.

on a race track 600's and liters do almost identical lap times. 600's can carry more corner speed but the 1000's eat them up on the straight.

Depends what you thinks more fun... cornering or having shit loads of power.
Muscle car or sports car.
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[pinkyfloyd]

Both will kill you to death if you ride then without according them respect and both can do silly speeds without breaking a sweat.

The difference is the thou will do it a shade faster.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
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Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[calyx]

To sum up;

1000cc's are for lazy riders. Put it in a gear and it will take you anywhere you want.
600cc's are more fun but sometimes tiresome. for instance; filtering and slow speed. (could be a bit jerky without pulling the clutch in)
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[Furrybiker]

Just my 2p, the litre bike will be less tiring as you will tend to adopt a "so what I can catch you anytime" approach whereas the 600 is more "rev scream rev yippee, theres a gap go for it".

Well thats my experience anyway.

[Walloper]

As said, a liter bike will eat a 600.
It is the bike race of a race meet anyway. Cause they are faster.

Take a 600 ouit after using a liter bike and you'll feel like you need to wring it's neck to get it to respond.

But being a bit lighter it may afford more confidence to chuck a 600 around more.
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[The Tot]

Mike has "succinctly" summed up the key points.

I treat the excess power as being my "power reserve". On a thou, you have a LOT more.

Real world scenario. Both bikes in 6th gear pulling 85 mph, my old 6R used to hold this speed keeping it at 7.5k rpm. The blade on the other hand maintains the same speed at 5.5k. Gearing etc will have an effect, however, in terms of revs and engine characteristics, the blade will feel lazier because you're using less revs to achieve the same power output (again, go back to mike's equation).

However, throw it into a set of twisties and they become two different animals! The engine characteristics define the handling of what would otherwise be two inline 4 sportsbikes.

But, if you look at thous between 2002-2006, thous were ALMOST as light as the 600's before the 600 class went on a diet and the thous got castrated by CATs. Riding back to back, my 929 Vs my mate's CBR600F-S of the same vintage, the 929 is like 600 on roids. Handling is broadly similar as are weights, but when it comes to cornering, you need to be a LOT more stable on the bigger bike purely because any improper throttle control inputs may cause you to sway off line. Also with the engine braking, bigger cylinders means more engine braking, so your corner entry needs to be a lot more stable. The 600's are more fun and forgiving if you get your line wrong. It's a different sort of challenge when you ride a thou, fair enough you can ride it fast, but more often than not, before you realise it, it's too fast for the roads to be legal! The benefit of a thou is you can pretty much ride it at 60% and it'll do it efficiently and without fuss - motorways and single carraigeway 5th/top gear overtakes.
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