Bit of advice needed, had a crash this evening UPDATE - WIN!

[neil.]

Never thought I'd be posting this sort of thing but... check out the paint diagram. Would also appreciate any advice/thoughts as to my position regarding insurance claims etc and also thanks for taking the time to read this!

Traffic was quite busy, I was riding in the outer lane around a 3 lane traffic light controlled roundabout (Galleons Roundabout if anyone in East London knows it), hopping between the lights doing no more than 20mph on the hop. Taking into account the road markings, I believe I was not at fault for riding where I was as they indicated I could use the outer lane to go past the exit where the incident occurred.

Slowing down for and approaching the lights, where I was to take my exit, and just approaching the preceding exit which I was intending to pass (I hadn't passed it yet!), out of nowhere I felt/heard a big bang and was thrown off the bike. A woman in a silver Ka had attempted to change lanes, from the centre lane in order to take that exit but had collided with the right/backish side of my bike, namely the exhaust silencer which now has a big dent and scratches etc. I believe she's at fault as from the impact point it would seem that I was in front of her and she rushed to take that exit at the last moment without looking properly. I didn't see the impact or her car before it happened, I only heard/felt it. As I said the road markings/arrow was such that I could use the outer lane even if I didn't want that exit (pointed forward and had a left 'breaker-offer'). The road markings/arrow in her middle lane only pointed forward so she shouldn't have been there at that point in my opinion.

Damage to me: None that I can tell right now.

Damage to the bike: Exhaust dented/scraped and bracket bent so it's slightly fouling the swing-arm. Clutch lever bent. Right hand fairing scratched. Front screen scratched. Front left indicator smashed. Top box scratched. Possibly £300ish of damage as I want to fix it myself (£200 for exhaust, £100 for other bits).

Luckily or unluckily there was a police car in front in the inside lane, so they didn't see it happen but they heard it. Whilst I was picking myself up, they came over, checked us both out and got her details for me, she's insured. Unfortunately there were no witnesses (nobody stopped) and because I wasn't injured they said it was a non-reportable incident but off the record, one officer said, judging by what I'd said, it looked like she hadn't seen me for some reason, was talking to her passenger/whatever, but it would have to be for the insurance to sort out.

Then I rode 30 miles home because I'm made of win.

Insurance are gonna be sending round an assessor or something to see if the bike is roadworthy, if not it'll be a hire bike. I'm just worried that the other driver will lie (hopeful she won't as police were there but unsure as to how much, if any influence they have over it) and without any witnesses I won't have a leg to stand on and end up being screwed over by the insurance. The police moved my bike out of the road whilst I was still picking myself up so I didn't get to take pics.

In the paint diagram - my path is blue, my intended path is dashed blue, her path is red. Should make sense.

Edit: Google maps link if you want to look at the road markings etc in more detail: https://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=e16+2rd&aq=&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=45.8712,84.462891&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=London+E16+2RD,+United+Kingdom&ll=51.508195,0.069869&spn=0.000947,0.002537&t=h&z=19

Another edit: inb4 cool story bro/<insert meme here>

[hmmmnz]

bugger, but sounds like nothing major which is always a bonus,

as for advice, im not sure what you are asking,
you have her details, give her a call and see if she wants to go through insurance or just pay you 300 quid make it 400, it probably only a little above her excess and would probably save her money in the long run,
if she doesnt call your insurance and let them deal with her and get the bike fixed professionally. or see if you can get a quote from some one and then fix the bike yourself and get the cash off them
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the humans are dead
I kick arse for the lord
Wiring Diagrams BIDNIP it bitches

[Nexus Icon]

If you're asking about liability then it's largely moot as to whether you were in the right lane or not, as you have to give way to any vehicles in the outer lane of a roundabout when exiting. At least, that's what I was told on one of the lessons before my test last year.
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[Villers]

Im gathering that the markings in your lane show you can keep going past the exit that she tried to take? If so then theres two things to say.

1. If the lane she was in has the same markings then they are bloody dangerous and I would avoid that outside lane like the plague.

2. She hasn't seen you, she may have looked behind her but you will have been either behind the A pillar on her left or she didnt bother looking at all. You arent at fault as far as I can tell.

The important bit is that theres no shenanigans here. I was reversed into by a car and it was clean cut. By the time the lying bitch was finished I had ran into her and it went 50/50. Tell the insurance the truth, supply the pictures etc as you have nothing to hide. If they start to falter, tell them to shove their 'legal cover' and get yourself onto no-win-no-fee. I take it you got the numbers of the coppers wo at least can verify where the accident occurred?

I really hope this works out for you
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RS125 > CBR6 > SV650S > ZX636R > GSX1300RZ Hayabusa > 06 RSVR Mille > SV1000S > Street Triple 765 RS

[multijoy]

Might be worth getting onto a solicitor (although the absence of any PI may mean they might not be keen to take it on)- pick one out of the back of MCN etc and let them deal with it.

If the TP's insurer is anyone but direct line (because they're cnuts, don't even try to approach them without a solicitor), you might find that they'll bend over to help you if you're only claiming for repairs. You don't commit yourself just by talking to them, and as the police know the crash happened (as opposed to witnessing the actual crash), you're not going to look like you're trying it on.

With regards your own insurer, you *should* tell them about it, clearly stating that it's 'for information only' and that you're emphatically not making a claim. This'll keep your NCB intact, but your premiums may get bumped slightly for having declaring an incident.

That said, the solicitor in my case said not to bother, and who am I to argue with legal advice!
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'11 CBF1000A, '99 C90, '98 CB500
silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

[ozzy r6]

if you was in front of her see should have seen you, plus she should have been in the correct lane to make the turn that she wanted.
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yamaha r6 5sl

[neil.]

Thanks very much for all the advice and comments, oh wise sages of BCF (man I love this place)!

I did ring up my insurance to tell them what happened, they put me in touch with a company called BLD who will talk to me about what happened in more detail. I didn't say I wanted to claim but I didn't say that I didn't, if that makes sense. To be honest I'm quite shaken by the whole thing and not thinking properly.

I have no idea who her insurer is, the police only gave me her name and address - I did think about calling her to give her the option of settling the money situation privately but after looking at the paper the police gave me and realising there was no number there, that went out the window. I didn't even talk to her. Basically as soon as it happened they pulled her to one side and by the time I got up, she was talking to them. I didn't get any details of who the police were or their vehicle reg etc. No idea what they said to her - she looked stunned to be honest and didn't seem to be putting up a fight with them or anything. They were gone very quickly actually.

Villers, you are correct about the outer lane - the markings show you can carry on or take the exit. The centre lane markings only show that you can carry on, there is no arrow breaking off. Judging by how busy the traffic was I feel she may have darted out suddenly but I don't recall seeing anything indicating/pulling out etc before I was hit. As far as I was concerned, it came from nowhere.

As said, my main worry is that she/her passenger don't concoct a pack of lies which will screw me over, especially since I don't have any witnesses. Perhaps she is a decent human being though and will admit what happened truthfully. Here's hoping.

[Livefast123]

She has hit you from behind and the damge on the vehicles should tell a thousand words however you need to make an effort to find witnesses so you can't get shafted.

Not living in London I can only assume there are a lot of CCTV camera's, go back to the location and look for any coverage and even go as far as putting a sign up asking for witnesses.

Get yourself a cheap waterproof camera like the ATC 2k like I have. Picture is only ok but would save you all this shite.

Hopefully she'll act like a human being and sort it out but when insurance companies are involved people make up all kinds of cr*p.
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Current ride - Yamaha MT-07

[P.]

Her fault, insurance will decide in your favour.

She hit the rear of your bike, maybe not even indicating...
She didnt look..and if she did, not enough.

Shaft her big time... stupid bint

Its her fault, down right stupidity... dont accept a 50/50.. thats insurance suicide


(Just read police pulled her up, again, they will back up its her fault... you'll be fine, and that sore leg and shoulder you will have in the morning will be paid for too... might even get you a new bike with the payout as a weekend weapon )

[neil.]

Some pics of the damage - the dent in the exhaust, parallel to the rear shock is where I believe she first struck my bike:

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/175946/Image002.jpg

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/175946/Image003.jpg

[stinkwheel]

Claim.

Be VERY careful what you say on the phone about the accident. Be very specific and clear about what you put on the initial claim form.

Do not put anything that might even vaguely suggest you were at fault. Be very detailed about exactly what happened and where.

If she chooses to lie about it, there isn't a huge amount you can do about it but the fact that the police were in attendance pretty much fixes who was involved and where it happened. The damage to the vehicles should tell the rest.

Do a good diagram and take pictures of the accident site to support your description. Try here: https://www.accidentsketch.com/

Make it very clear that she ran into the back of you. Make it very clear that you were not signalling in any way.

Sounds like a classic A-pillar blindspot incident. She probably didn't see you because you were behind the big thick A-pillar that stops the roof of her cage collapsing if she turns it upside down.

The insurance company will sit on their arse and do nothing. Expect to hear nothing. They do this in the hope that you'll give up on it. You need to keep on at them.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[P.]

[neil.]

[Minty]

Slightly offtopic'ish but may be relevant. My trainer told me to never be in the middle lane on approach, or on a roundabout unless road markings tell you to do so. Choose the left lane to turn left or go straight on, choose the right to turn right. Are there road markings indicating which lane to go where?

If she is in the middle lane then surely she needs to ensure there is nothing to her left before attempting to exit. She failed.
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My fingers smell of your mum.

[neil.]

[dragstaar]

You were perfectly within your rights to be where you were, and do what you were doing. the road marking says that you can continue on or turn off. She was in the incorrect lane.

However, you have no witnesses. This is the one thing that will screw you over.

People are bastards so she'll probably lie, My guess is that she'll say you changed lanes into her, and that she was actually just continuing on.

If she says that, I could see a judge thinking that "yeah, bikes filter all the time and jump in and out of lanes, it makes sense"

Seeing as there are no witnesses, then she can pretty much come up with whatever she likes, and it'll be a 50/50 split.

Did you get the police ID numbers? But the Metropolitan are awful when it comes to traffic incidents.


Sorry, but I really don't think you can get anywhere if she lies buddy.

[neil.]

[dragstaar]

This is the thing. I had an accident in east london. And it was EXACTLY the same thing. except the road was straight. other than that, exactly the same. Exhaust was damaged. I never came off though, but the guy crushed my foot.

I had a witness. Police came and took statements and did a report.

Witness didn't want to come to court. Police report never came through.

50/50 split because he said I changed lanes in to him. I was furious. This is why i've been looking to get a video camera fitted to the bike, but can't afford it yet

[yen_powell]

I go round that roundabout a lot. I know it as 'Poo Pump' roundabout on account of that building in the middle.
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Blackmail is a nasty word........but not as nasty as phlegm!
XT1200Z and a DR350 in bits

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Maybe it's possible to contact the police and find the officers who spoke to her... should she turn into a wrong 'un.

Glad to hear you're in one piece neil. Top marks for getting the battered thing home.
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[neil.]

[neil.]

[schooleydoo]

I have had similar experience and know just how much the insurance company will push you to settle for 50/50, apparently almost all roundabout accidents without witnesses end this way.

I was in the inside lane of a 2 lane roundabout turning right. A van in the outside lane going straight on decided not to follow his lane and the curve of the roundabout and instead cut straight through my lane and out the other side. I was wedged between him and the roundabout. He claimed because he was a van (SWB transit) he is allowed to do this due to his size. Amazingly, my insurance company agreed.

Took 2 years of fighting with MY insurance company to get them to agree to pay for a solicitor and a court hearing. 15 minutes of photos and quotes from the Highway Code later and I got my money back. It's little wonder people settle for 50/50. If I wasn't so pigheaded I probably would have too.

[Pete.]

With damage to her nearside front and your offside rear it should go in your favour BUT insurance companies are notorious for making roundabout accidents 50/50. All you can do is stick to your guns and keep your fingers crossed. Most likely she will say that you were overtaking her on the left.

Always get a witness if you can - pictures too on your cameraphone - even if it's just a numberplate of a following car. You can get owner details from the DVLA if you have a good enough reason and I'd bet this qualifies.

I left my bike in the middle of the road and went walking back along the following queue asking for witnesses when I got knocked off.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[BikerGuy95]

By the look of that diagram you were fine, that car was totally wrong and she should've been in the correct lane. There could be a possibility that you were "out of sight" cus she had them little crappy ford ka mirrors set up wrong. Dunno if thats part of the reason.

Sorry to hear about the damage but very glad to hear you're fine
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CBT Passed: 24th February 2011