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is an electric heater cheaper than a radiator

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lee8040
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Joined: 27 Jan 2006
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PostPosted: 06:09 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: is an electric heater cheaper than a radiator Reply with quote
sometimes i need to heat 1-2 small rooms but to put on the central heating means 4 radiators go on as 2 cant be turned off. is it cheaper to put a small electric heater in the room than running the 3-4 radiators?

thanks
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flat spot
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PostPosted: 06:32 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Put these on the radiators https://www.plumbworld.co.uk/radiator-valves-88-0000
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 06:36 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any form of electric heating, (or cooling come to that, air con), is prohibitively expensive.

The current thinking, in terms of economy, is to heat the space constantly but at a very low level.

Having said that, IMO, the quickest way to heat up a room is with a small "fan" heater, a 2kw model should do the the job in 10 minutes. Once you've got the room up to temperature use your CH to maintain the cosiness!
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 07:10 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
As Sid said tbh.


By virtue of the physics all electric heaters are 100% efficient (i.e. all electricity is converted into heat) and as such all electric heaters will cost a fortune to run, the ones that claim they don't cost much to run aren't going to be producing as much heat. Fan heaters heat the air nice and quick so you feel warm earlier than other heater types.


If it is a trade off between running the CH for the whole house or an electric heater in one room then the electric will probably come out cheaper, if you are going to be having multiple electric heaters then you may as well just run the CH.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:

By virtue of the physics all electric heaters are 100% efficient (i.e. all electricity is converted into heat)


Nothing is 100% efficient, and definitely not fan heaters.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:16 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
truslack wrote:
DonnyBrago wrote:

By virtue of the physics all electric heaters are 100% efficient (i.e. all electricity is converted into heat)


Nothing is 100% efficient, and definitely not fan heaters.


If you can give me one example of an energy output produced by a fan heater that doesn't eventually end up as heat I will either be seriously impressed (i.e. nobel prize worthy impressed) or laugh at your misunderstanding of fundamentally basic physics.
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SlimRick
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fan heater - surely the fan itself will be subject to some losses - noise for one.
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:26 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
SlimRick wrote:
Fan heater - surely the fan itself will be subject to some losses - noise for one.


Indeed, but all forms of energy such as noise will be converted to heat, as will kinetic energy, light energy etc etc. Because the output that we want from the heater is heat and any other losses will eventually become heat the system is 100% efficient.

Everything that uses energy (unless you get into nuclear physics whereby some energy is stored as matter (before eventually becoming heat again I might add)) is a 100% efficient HEATER, i.e. light bulbs, stereos, your motorcycle and even you.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 10:41 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:

If you can give me one example of an energy output produced by a fan heater that doesn't eventually end up as heat I will either be seriously impressed (i.e. nobel prize worthy impressed) or laugh at your misunderstanding of fundamentally basic physics.


I now know why I'm wrong, but I'm not admitting defeat, so I'm going to say the power LED on top of the fan heater, as it does not emit heat. Laughing
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 10:48 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
truslack wrote:
DonnyBrago wrote:

If you can give me one example of an energy output produced by a fan heater that doesn't eventually end up as heat I will either be seriously impressed (i.e. nobel prize worthy impressed) or laugh at your misunderstanding of fundamentally basic physics.


I now know why I'm wrong, but I'm not admitting defeat, so I'm going to say the power LED on top of the fan heater, as it does not emit heat. Laughing



It emits light, that is converted into heat Wink .


(it also emits a small amount of heat)
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Finglonga
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
Any form of electric heating, (or cooling come to that, air con), is prohibitively expensive.

The current thinking, in terms of economy, is to heat the space constantly but at a very low level.



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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are you sure it's an LED? Not that it's relevant to your roasting OFC Wink
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truslack
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PostPosted: 12:42 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
Are you sure it's an LED? Not that it's relevant to your roasting OFC Wink


In my hypothetical situation in which I'm trying to be right, yes it's an LED. Laughing
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:
It emits light, that is converted into heat Wink


I dunno if you're spot on there. It's been awhile since the thermodynamics element of my engineering degree but I seem to remember that in the case of heater elements, bulb filaments and the like, electrons are excited and in an effort to release their energy they generally rely on two forms of energy dispersal, light and heat. One does not cause the other they simply occur at the same time as the energy is released.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Put a jumper on Thumbs Up
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 18:29 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nexus Icon wrote:
DonnyBrago wrote:
It emits light, that is converted into heat Wink


I dunno if you're spot on there. It's been awhile since the thermodynamics element of my engineering degree but I seem to remember that in the case of heater elements, bulb filaments and the like, electrons are excited and in an effort to release their energy they generally rely on two forms of energy dispersal, light and heat. One does not cause the other they simply occur at the same time as the energy is released.


I think you have misunderstood my point Nexus, (reading back over it I could have been more clear) ignoring the heat aspect of electron excitation/relaxation what do you think happens to the energy of the emitted photon once it has been released? It doesn't bounce around as light forever it will eventually be absorbed by something (in this case absorbed by the matter in the room).

When a photon is absorbed it will transfer it's energy to the absorbing particle and heat will be produced. EVERY conversion of energy results in heat, that it produces both a photon (light) and heat on the quantum level during electron relaxation is irrelevant as eventually the total energy release (i.e. both the energy of the photon and the heat) will be lost as heat.
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 17 Jun 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote
DonnyBrago wrote:
I think you have misunderstood my point Nexus, (reading back over it I could have been more clear) ignoring the heat aspect of electron excitation/relaxation what do you think happens to the energy of the emitted photon once it has been released? It doesn't bounce around as light forever it will eventually be absorbed by something (in this case absorbed by the matter in the room).

When a photon is absorbed it will transfer it's energy to the absorbing particle and heat will be produced. EVERY conversion of energy results in heat, that it produces both a photon (light) and heat on the quantum level during electron relaxation is irrelevant as eventually the total energy release (i.e. both the energy of the photon and the heat) will be lost as heat.


Ah sure, I'm with you now. Fair dos. That's a somewhat finite way of looking at energy though, so no wonder I missed your point. Ultimately every 'drop' of energy will be heat at some point so what you're saying is true. It's just a tad close to Ultimatism for my poor brain.
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