Penalty Fare (Summons?) - Legal advice

[Fnatic]

Cut a long story short, had to take a National Express train for one stop earlier today. Tried putting a £20 note into the machine which it would not accept and was the only money on me at the time. I was trying to by a return ticket from Station A to Station B. No ticket office was open.

Got on the platform and the train was running 10 minutes late. In the past (on 2 occasions) where the machines haven't worked I have bought a valid ticket at my destination's station and all had been fine but as the service made me late I didn't bother and continued. After an hour, I returned to Station B to get a train home. Misread the train signs and thought my train was the one pulling up to the station. Ran for the train and just got on it.

Two ticket inspectors roll up asking for tickets. I explain that I attempted to buy a return ticket at the start of my journey from a self-service machine at Station A but it wouldn't accept any notes and then on the return leg of my journey I took the wrong train and didn't even want this train. They started asking for £20 in fares which I didn't have as I had spent my money while out (well £17 of it) as I forgot that the machine was defunct but clearly had shown intent to buy a ticket.

Yeah, so not a good day for me as you can imagine. After researching online, looks like I can expect a court summons for contravening railway byelaw 18(1):

[Fairies attack]

What a load of toss. I have done that before and they have accepted the fact.

Sounds like you have met an arsehole.
I wouldn't worry about it. I have been waiting 8months for a letter proving I left my trai. Tickets in the hotel in Tallinn, and not got one after getting a free anytime ticket of the bloke at the train station the night before.

If it has taught me anything of going long distance on a train. Tell someone where you are meant to be going, then at the station infront of the ticket man or whatever, after telling him your plight. Phone them telling them you can't get there and will have to walk unless they can lay for the ticket now, and they will write you one.

When I was seei.g miss 33, I never paid for the train since I was always 'asleep' or left my tocket in the hotel.

[Imonster]

Stick the same post up in the Transport section of the CAG forum; loads of really helpful people on there that saved my backside. FYI, I did far worse than you about a year ago, including fracturing an RPI's hand allegedly and settled out of court for £35 with a well constructed letter.
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Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

[ws4936]

[Phoenix]

Dont' really get it. Station A, machine broke didn't work, that's fine. You made no effort to find the conductor to buy a ticket though, not fine.

You get to your destination, spend all but £3 of your money (how were you planning on buying your return ticket unless it's only £3?) Instead though, you once again get on a train without a ticket, this is a different station so no ticket machine issues, plus you have coins now.

You get on a wrong train and explain about skipping a fair on the first train you got too. All I see is a series of events that look very much like you couldn't be bothered to get a ticket.

He probably only cautioned you after you refused to pay the fine which is fair enough, he's not going to caution you when asking the reasons for not having a ticket and offering you the choice of a fixed penalty, by refusing and/or not having the means to pay you demonstrate you had no intention to pay and therefore comes the caution.

If it goes to court then you should be concerned about your future as a police special, if that's what you are.

[Mac_Black]

Simples, tell the inspectors to do one. Don't provide any details, invite them to call the police to the next stop where you'll happily talk to them.

[Fnatic]

Hmm, thanks for the replies and yeah I am worried for my future as a Special.

I am going to go and buy the ticket I meant to buy tomorrow and then buy a ticket for the train I accidentally boarded as well. Then when the letter comes I will send them off with a cheque offering to pay the £20 penalty fare and just hope for the best. I may even photocopy all the travel cards I've purchased recently too to show that I am not a fare dodger.

[Rogerborg]

Yup, now that you've been caught, you should probably start doing the right thing to protect your career.

Oooh, went a bit Hetzer there.
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[Fnatic]

It was a genuine mistake and as much as I want to settle out of court, I won't be taken for a ride. No pun intended.

[iCraig]

What station was it? As penalty fares don't apply to all stations, only stations I know for sure they apply to are London stations...

[Fnatic]

[iCraig]

You never know, might be a jumped up TTI applying rules where they don't apply.

If you want my help I'll need to know the TOC and the station travelling from/to.

[Rogerborg]

[Louise]

No idea on your story, but they do try and get you something chronic.
Long story cut short for me - I brought a ticket from Emsworth to Southampton Central few months ago, I got off at Eastleigh (due to new plans on the train) - Eastleigh was a 2 stops short from S/Central (And would of been cheaper if I had chosen that option in the first place)
However, they tryed to charge me 2 stops fair form S/Central to Eastleigh - as I had gotten off early
Didnt really make sence, But I didnt pay - and walked off.

[Fnatic]

[multijoy]

You really want to be on the blower to the whichever solicitors NPIA have appointed to represent specials on your force. It's what they're there for.

You didn't attempt to buy a ticket for your return journey, you were busted. Remember, the train operators don't need the CPS to turn this into a criminal matter, they can act as prosecutors in their own right.

You need to get some proper advice, and you may need to man up and take it on the chin, even if you think it's patently unfair.
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silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

[sickpup]

[J4mes]

I don't understand why you spent your ticket money

[Fnatic]

[J4mes]

No, seriously. If you knew you were going to have to pay at some point, why did you spend the ticket money?

Do you go to a petrol station, fill up with fuel, spend the fuel money on chocolate and then try to bullshit the cashier?

I work on the railway, I ride the train quite a lot. I see all the excuses under the sun for why people can't or won't pay. And to be honest, your case seems to boil down to "If you hadn't spent the £20, you could have paid there and then"

Didn't the conductor have a card machine you could have paid on? Practically all of them have these now. Or didn't you have a card with you?

If not, you spent your cash and had no other way to pay for a ticket.

Of course, I am making lots of assumptions, mostly not in your favour. But to be honest, I'm covered in thunderbugs and it's fucking me off big time

[sickpup]

Don't specials get free travel via their warrant card?

Theres also the obvious that PACE doesn't apply to anyone except the Police. Ticket inspectors and public officials use a pieced together interpretation of PACE that they are not legally obliged to follow.

One has to wonder just why you are a special what with bunking train fares and not understanding basic law.

[Fnatic]

[Fnatic]

National Express wrote to me, I replied with sufficient evidence that I had no intention to permanently deprive them and they said they'd settle for the cost of the fare. Better than most people I've read online who said they asked for £100+ in administration costs to settle out of court.