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Stuster
Scooby Slapper
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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 Posted: 08:12 - 09 Jul 2011  Post subject: Looking For a Project.... Advice Needed / Classic BSA |
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Hello everyone.
I am looking for a project one to learn about bikes and two it keeps me from under the missus feet lol. I am looking for a more classic bike such as the BSA D7 or something along them lines, Nice simple bike but needing a full restoration.
I am in no rush but cannot seem to find any classic or older bikes for sale for reasonable price. Can any of you guys recommend a good starter bike for me to learn on? I have had a little experience with stripping and rebuilding bikes, nothing to heavy but I understand the basics.
also I would be grateful if any of you could share your stories and maybe post a few pics of any resorations you may have done.
I am under no illusions that restoring a classic or older bike may require deep pockets but i belive if this is your passion and the bike is for you to enjoy then you cannot put a price on that 
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Yamaha TZR125 x 3 Lifan LF125 14-F x 3 Jinlun 125 x 1 Honda CBR 600 F1 Honda Varadero 125cc I am now starting my Honda VFR400 NC30 Project (Still ongoing 27/02/18) Daelim Roadwin 125R |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 09:37 - 09 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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Might be worthwhile contacting the local bike clubs and seeing if they'll ask their members if they have any heaps or abandoned projects lying around taking up space.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| stinkwheel |
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stinkwheel
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| Posted: 10:11 - 09 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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Could I suggest you look out for an Enfield of some sort.
They've been making bullets for pushing 60 years now. They are still making them (although you can't get one officially imported any more, just the new EFI models).
I have a four year old 350 and it IS an old british bike, right down to a right side, pre-unit gearbox.
So, as you might imagine, there are a lot of bullets about of varying ages. The main advantage is you can still obtain ALL the parts for them, new and at a reasonable price. There is also the largest array of aftermarket customising and tuning componants I've ever seen for a single model of motorcycle.
What is entirely possible is buying a tatty one or a basket case and doing it up how you want it. They make parts so you can have an authentic looking 1950's one, a rigid frames bobber, a cafe racer or even a fire-breathing monster capable of 120mph depending on what you want to spend.
Have a look on here:
https://www.hitchcocksmotorcycles.com/used-parts-bikes-bikes
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 14:22 - 09 Jul 2011  Post subject: Re: Looking For a Project.... Advice Needed / Classic BSA |
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| stuartsmith wrote: | I am in no rush but cannot seem to find any classic or older bikes for sale for reasonable price.
I am under no illusions that restoring a classic or older bike may require deep pockets |
There in lies your dilemah.
Most resto's cost more to do, than they are worth.
Question is how big a difference? And what do you want to do with it after.
Snowie & I have spent, more than the price of a brand new Yamaha YBR125 renovating her 'Pup'..... looks good, but Its not worth that kind of money to anyone but her, and she'll get the value out of it, from keepng it and using it, as an every day bike.
I have a DT12/75MX... which when I can wrestle myself away from super dreams, I want to renovate.
I could easily spend as much on that bike, as Snowie did on 'The Pup', maybe a couple of grand. Pup, with the best will in teh world, would maybe be worth £1200...... Well renovated DT175MX, about £1500.... picking the more sought after bike, I loose less..... were I to sell.
But, what am I gonig to do with it? If I want to sell, then the margin is small, and I have to cut corners and be skinny on work to bring it in at a price I could break even for.
If I want to keep it, as a show piece, then maybe worth every penny.
To keep as a rider? I have to think long and hard what's important, and how much 'value' I may get from it.... as a 'classic' it wont be an every day rider for ME, so for the odd sunny sunday, or ride out, how much is it REALLY worth?
Valuable, and desirable classics, are expensive to buy un restored, becouse there are more people that actually want to waste money restoring them for 'fun'.
SOME bikes can be restored for less than the bike may fetch restored... but its remarkeably few.
There are only a very small number of bikes people will pay seriouse money for in fully restored condition, by which I mean, more than they would cost to restore. These are headline bikes like Vincent Black Shaddows, Velocette Thruxton's, Mike Hailwood Replica Ducati's, Original Wire Wheel, Honda CB750 KO's, Kawasaki Z1's, and 'just' snicking in, Yamaha RD250LC's...
You MAY break even on a bike like an RD500LC or RG500LC that command high classic prices, but more normally on 'originality' from being unrestored low miles 'preserved' condition bikes, restored ones are valuable, but often not as valuable as full resto cost.
And bikes you THINK are desirable, often fall in the margin; Triumph Bonnavilles, the most desirable of the big twins, and generally the most valuable, often still not more valuable than a decent resto cost.
There are oddities out there, if you know the market, but not many, there are few 'winners' in the resto game, I know a few, but BOY they really know thier stuff, ANd how to 'tip the odds in thier favour!
I was thinking about it last year, and looking at what's out there, and bottom line is, more people want project bikes to DO than want project bikes that have been DONE.
If you want cheap and simple, JUST for the joy of doing, twin shock, single cylinder.... CG125, with so many Chinese copy parts so cheap on e-bay, HAS to be with a thought..... not an inspirational machine, nor the 'nicests' to work on.... but cheap bits, and strong resale value.... but high buy price. Even as a spares or repairs bike, you are looking £2-300 or more, unless you are lucky.
BSA C15, the most likely 'birt bike' candidate, and 'cheap' resto? Again, looking at high buy price, becouse its 'old'... and not that great a sell price. Seen minters fail to sell for £700!
Triumph Cub, would be a nice bet, not too expensive, well supported, but again, not that valuable even when done. Healthy trials scene helps spares support, but also steers prices.... get more for either BSA C15/B40 'Trials Chop' than concourse show room restored example..... cant do much but 'show' a road bike, trials chop has more functional value!
So back to Japs..... what's out there, for sensible money, that commands sensible money? And the answer is not much!
Back to, more people having the idea doing an old bike up would be fun, than there are people than would buy a classic to tootle about on.
That accepted, its back to your deep pockets... how deep are they, and given you wont get back what you put in from selling, what would you like to keep at the end of it, and how much is it worth to you?
And on THAT score, what are you prepared to pay for a project 'base'?
I looked at wire wheel CB750;s.... I was looking at £800+ for a project base, and that was for bikes nie on unviable from being hacked and bashed, or not being all there! Needed to spend around £1500 to get something genuine, and near complete that stood a chance of being viable. Lot of money to find, to start chucking more money at.
CB550's are dirt cheap though....... 'almost' a CB750, wire wheels chrome guards, very similar look... could pick up a very viable resto project, NAY a taxed tested, but slightly tatty 'runner' for maybe £500......... £200 would have got a part restored unfinished project or barn find derelict, and I could, if I hunted, probably find some one offering a complete bike in a jigsaw box, for under £50, or even FREE If I promiced to rebuild it and not just e-bay the bits.......
But, cost and effort, it would take almost as much to restore as a 'real' 750 'Four', and at BEST only be worth 1/3 the money, and at the end of it, I'd NOT have 'the real deal' I wanted......
So....... WHAT do YOU want?
Having made THAT choice, make the compromises, and make it work for you; which may mean biting the bullet and paying high for the project base...... but, if it gets you what you want out of the project, makes it worth while..... and ultimately, you KNOW that the project base, is PROBABLY going to be only a very small part of the overall project cost, so whats the couple of hundred extra worth, at the beginning, to get the project you really want, against the saving to get a project you DONT really want, and will always, from day 1, make you feel short changed?
Probably not the answer you wanted to hear, BUT, if you see the sense, can help steer......
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| f1fan111 |
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f1fan111
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| Posted: 19:03 - 09 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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by BSA D7 i gather you are refering to the Bantam which was made for many years and changed over the.
My advice would be to look on ebay and just type in company names like BSA, Matchless, AJS, Norton, Royal Enfield, Triumph, Ariel, James so at least you get to see what is out there and what bikes you like the look of. Look for the classic bike magazines in newsagents and have a look at there classifieds which normally have photos. Finding a project for the right price is very hard! but do it for a bike you like.
Royal Enfield is good to start with as my girlfriends dad has a 1958 Bullet 500 and can get brand new spares from Hitchcocks but there are people out there who specialize in certain companies as i am currently rebuilding a Matchless Special/Bitza.
People who have the knowledge about the bikes are valuable i am lucky that my girlfriends dad has rebuilt alot of british bikes for himself so knows alot about them, has books about them and also is very good at seeing if a part on ebay is correct for the right bike.
https://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c170/f1fan111/03032011369800x600.jpg
The picture is my matchless at the moment, its not complete yet as i am having the tank cut and welded to fit better, just had carb rebuilt that was £100, got magnettio to get rebuilt which is around £200. I should get new rims and spokes but that may wait until its back on the road.
As tef says its very hard to make money on projects, but if your doing to because you want the bike to ride on for a few years then do it all part of the learning experience! |
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| unitynotsocri... |
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unitynotsocri...
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| Posted: 19:40 - 09 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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If you like simplicity and singles then go for a bantam, c15 or a xl /cg/cb single ,honda 250rs .two strokes can be cheaper to rebuild .As other posters point out ,in most cases it does'nt make financial sense on a single project unless you factor in the experience and mechanical understanding you gain.
But then there's the big uncountable....called pleasure ..or trials and tribulations = experience..that will last your whole life.
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nearly a normal tax paying tosser.......with ferrileness suzi100,cg125,cb125scb100n,cb175,cd100,cj250t,kh250,c15,125 bantam,super 6,rickman gs750,xt500,250rs,dt175,lifan125,dolomite1850,metro,Morris220ld,morrisfg,leyland princess,range rover,corsa,vw camper .now struggling with legs. MORE ORDER = MORE CHAOS |
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jjdugen
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Vincent
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| Posted: 19:47 - 09 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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Sorry but Bantams are awful bikes, and about as much fun to ride as having your teeth pulled. personaly, I would avoid them like the plague. If it has to be a british bike get a Triumph, most of the more exotic Brit bikes are hard to find parts for nowadays. There are plenty of classic Jap bikes out there waiting to be restored, why British  |
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stinkwheel
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Posted: 23:13 - 09 Jul 2011  Post subject: |
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| Vincent wrote: | Sorry but Bantams are awful bikes, and about as much fun to ride as having your teeth pulled. personaly, I would avoid them like the plague. If it has to be a british bike get a Triumph, most of the more exotic Brit bikes are hard to find parts for nowadays. There are plenty of classic Jap bikes out there waiting to be restored, why British |
I agree bantams are rubbish and always were. If you want a Bantam, you'd be better off with an MZ TS125. They are both copies of the same bike. The MZ one being rather better executed than the BSA one.
For ultimate authenticity, find a DKW RT125 which was the original bike the bantam was derived from.
Actually. There are guys selling some seriously old/obscure/oddball eastern block bikes from the new EU member states on ebay. I saw an MZ BK350 on there a couple of months back, now that would be a worthwhile project. How often do you see a horizontally opposed 2-stroke twin with shaft drive?
https://www.sweller.co.uk/mz/images/lh14.jpg
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles. |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 14:46 - 10 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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| Vincent wrote: | I was going to suggest Guzzi but the 500. I had a Monza 500, and it was a great bike, both to work on, and to ride. Contrary to popular belief at the time, it was also very reliable. The Guzzis "sideways V" is supposed to be the best, most efficient V configuration going. |
When Snowie wanted to 'Do' a project; Guzzi V50 was my top choice for her to 'do' as post test 'big bike'.
To my Mind Guzzi's are BMW's with 'soul'. Built on the Shores of Lake Como in Northern Italy, on the border of Austria, they manage to blend Germanic ideas of 'solidity' with Italian 'flare'...
Chap I used to know, used to bring old Wops in from Italy, in the early 90's, and have helped with a couple of Iti-Projects.
The V35, is the Italian 'home market' V50 tax beater; same bike sleeved down; Plenty about, and usually cheap, but NOT a V50, though easy to convert.
Moto Morini's are a rather nice alternative; the 3 1/2 was a very sweet Cafe Racer in its day. Heron Head, 'longitudinal' 350 V-Twin, again well supported.
Had the displeasure of numerouse Binelli's.... the Honda 'Four' clones are VERY worth avoiding! The two stroke's though are another matter. They did a famouse 'copy' of the Suziki X7, which was the first 'production' 250 to crack the ton (Though always argued!), It was basically a race ported X7, as standard. Argument over licence infringement was rather loud; and not helped by fact that cranks, engine cases, even side panels, I believe, are 100% interchangeable with X7 'bits!
Some of the smaller Binelli's I believe are air Cooled Yamaha 'copies' and just as interchangeable.
Some quite interesting Italian 'classics' about, that make quite viable resto's, becouse of these kind of quirks; and Italian Motorcycle Owners Club, and marque clubs can be very helpful in resolving 'issues' with them.
We 'did' a 1972 Ducati Bevel Cam single, Street Scrambler; which was a very nice little project; but, these days, such headline marques can be more hassle than they are worth.
| stinkwheel wrote: | For ultimate authenticity, find a DKW RT125 which was the original bike the bantam was derived from. |
Have to concur on that one.
And as Stink says, there are old DKW's crawling out of the woodwork from former soviete states, and where the Bantam is 'just' BSA's mass market copy of the DKW, the DKW is the 'Grandad' of the modern two stroke.
| stinkwheel wrote: | Actually. There are guys selling some seriously old/obscure/oddball eastern block bikes from the new EU member states on ebay. I saw an MZ BK350 on there a couple of months back, now that would be a worthwhile project. How often do you see a horizontally opposed 2-stroke twin with shaft drive?
https://www.sweller.co.uk/mz/images/lh14.jpg |
I like!
Nope... too many projects, and I just KNOW something like that would be a 'nightmare'!
Resto's are a veritable shmorgas board....
One thing I didn't think to suggest, and that was, 'Dirt Bikes' in general.
The classic trials and classic scrambles 'scene' is very strong; and it gives a bike a reason to be.
Properly 'used'' building a classic trials bike, there is more to it, than rivet counting, trying to replicate the exact show room spec....
There's a bit more latitude in the game, functionality counts a lot more, and based on street bikes, most older classic compers were 'specials' right from the start, so, you dont have to be so pedantic about wiring and lights etc....
The Bantam, makes a reasonable Brit-Bike Trials chop, and there is quite a lively Bantam Trials scene.... but James and Villiers tend to do better in actual competition, in the two stroke class.
T-Shock, is the more accessible though; era covers the early and mid sixties of brit bikes, and the later Bantams, James, Greeves and other Villiers powered two strokes, but through the 70's and into the early 80's, with lots of Italian and spanish, and Japanese bikes.
The Spanish Bultaco 'Sherpa' is one of the best supported of the T-shock era bikes..... Italian Fantics, probably the worst. I have a Montesa, which is pretty well supported, and usually cheap when they crop up, likewise OSSA's.
But the definative T-shock 'starter-bike' is the Yamaha TY175. It was one of the most popular in its day, light and nimble with very responsive and 'punchy' reed valve engine. Was made from the early seventies right through to the mid eighties. It is incredibly well supported for spares, very easy to find, and not TOO expensive to get hold of.
As simple as a 'Bantam' mechanically, and in some respects easier to work with. Well worth a 'look' if you want two stroke simplicity, and a reason to ride!
For road / trail; I'm doing my DT-MX when I can get around to it. again, similar virtues of simplicity and support, plus cheapness.
Earlier Twin-shock DT's, are however more valuable, and there are quite a lot crawling out of the woodwork on E-Bay.... expensive to buy, but worth more when done.
The 'old' Twin shock two strokes have had a renaisance in the classic world over the last twenty years, as road bikes have become more and more sophisticated and laden with accessories and equipment, leaving dirt bikes with more of the traditional 'virtues' for viable restoration, minimal bodywork, wiring, simpler engines & suspension.
And bikes like old Kawasaki KE's or Suzuki TS's are more often being 'done' these days, and hence getting better support... but you do have to do some research, to pick the better candidates.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Posted: 11:12 - 11 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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| Quote: | They may not be raced with the MotoGP now but there are still thousands of two strokes used on a daily basis in this country - probably milions if you include the rest of Europe. You've only got to look at the NSR forum, the RD forum and the RGv forum to see how popular they are. In fact, the 500s are more sought after now than ever. I've just sold one and am restoring another and more of my mates that ride, have two strokes than four strokes, (although most have both). IMO, they are much more fun on shorter rides. |
I agree, they are a hoot to ride, but there are very few new 2 strokes available to buy now. Whilst i think everyone should own a two smoke at some point, as an exercise for gaining knowledge on engines i just thought a four stroke would have more relevance now all the 2 strokes have been phased out of production.
If the OP isnt bothered about that, id say get an X7  Cheap at the minute, but im sure they will increase in value as the RD's have in recent years.
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3 Honda NC50's(Sold)-->'72 Puch Maxi S (Sold, want it back!)--> '90 Yamaha RXS 100 (Stolen)--> '87 Honda Cub 90(Sold) --> '95 Kawasaki Eliminator (Sold) --> '98 Bandit 600 (Sold) -->'07 SV650S (Current) |
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Vincent
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| Posted: 11:14 - 11 Jul 2011 Post subject: |
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True enuf - not many new strokers nowadays - sadly 
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Stuster
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| Posted: 13:09 - 13 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Thanks for all your replys guys. I still haven't found a BSA that in in my price range but am still on the outlook and stock piling has already begun.
When i do finally get my hands on one i will do updates with pick.
Thanks again 
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Yamaha TZR125 x 3 Lifan LF125 14-F x 3 Jinlun 125 x 1 Honda CBR 600 F1 Honda Varadero 125cc I am now starting my Honda VFR400 NC30 Project (Still ongoing 27/02/18) Daelim Roadwin 125R |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 150 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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