Getting sacked for drug possesion

[Chris750]

A guy got sacked from work the other day for having cannabis in his bag. He was sacked on the spot without any formal due process. This got me thinking.....
I noted today that we have no formal drug and alcohol policy. So for example if I came to work semi-drunk, as I have not agreed anything (i.e. to not come in drunk), as long as I am able to carry out my duties to the usual standard would I be right in thinking that it is harder for them to do anything without a formal policy.
This brings me back to the guy that got sacked, as he has not formally agreed to a drug policy, should they have been able to sack him without any warning?
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Current Rides: GSXR-750 WS, GSXR-1000 K5, KTM EXC 300

[temeluchus]

Bringing illegal substances into a place of work seems a fair reason for getting the boot, policy or no.

Alcohol is legal so not quite the same thing.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Rogerborg]

They might as well sack you for having ripped music on your iPod, or wearing a pair of fake Nikes.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Frost]

Sacking him without a formal process of verbal and written warnings is of course possible in the event of gross missconduct. This usually happens if people are caught stealing or bringing the company into extreme disripute.
Technically drug possession is an arrestable offence, and committing one at work will get you the sack. I see what you means about alcohol but the law looks at alcohol / weed as day and night despite the fact that both are drugs of similar potency (IMO).

[95Theses]

If he's got any sense he'll deny any knowledge of how it got there and then take them to a tribunal for not following a disciplinary process and allowing him to state his case. And win.

it's bollocks all round of course, but it's the way employment law seems to be these days.

Anyone who fires someone for having a plant in their bag needs their head checked, and I haven't smoked a joint in 5 years.

[nowhere.elysium]

While I agree that sacking is epic overkill, it's a bit stupid taking an illegal drug into the workplace. Still, they should have at least done it formally, as opposed to an on-the-spot dismissal.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[Nexus Icon]

Maybe not legally but morally my opinion on whether this is fair or not would depend on the type of job he has.

If he's a till boy at Tesco it seems a bit over the top but if he's a bus driver.....
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[95Theses]

[Frost]

There are lots of jobs where you actually get drug tested, they are looking to see if you're a user, not if you're currently under the influence. So in those sorts of jobs having an 8th on you is basically the same as failing a drug test and will get you fired.

Basically it's all his fault for getting caught. I used to smoke on my lunch breaks when i worked in a supermarket, but then i didn't give a fuck about the job. I assume the same is mostly true for him. If it were his dream job i doubt he'd be dumb enough to risk it by getting stoned at work or by having pot on him.

[Paivi]

Why did they go through his bag in the first place?
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My other bike's a Monster...

[temeluchus]

[Poseidon]

[Nexus Icon]

[G]

Some time ago in a retail scenario I was found with something I shouldn't have had in my bag (I absolutely believe there was no 'moral' issue with what I had, but was against wording of company policy).

I was suspended, for five weeks in the end. But on full (part time, this was a second job I wasn't that bothered about) for 5 weeks.
In that time I made a counter complaint about the person who looked through my bag (they claim it was knocked and it fell open.)

It ended up with my getting a first verbal warning, but being over £1k up in pay for time I hadn't worked.

I ended up leaving before my complaint went through, but thought overall I probably came off better than the company did .

[RPM]

Hello

I do not know the person or the his circumstances so I do not attempt or intend to judge him or his reasons for having the substance in his posession at work. Regardless of mitigation the situation is something that he has to take responsibility for.

The problem with most drug or alcohol misuse policies is that they usually focus on supporting an employee if substance misuse affects their work and therefore their employment status rather than being in posession of a substance in the workplace.

I was just wondering how the employers knew that he had cannabis in his bag, unless of course, you are talking some really potent form of weed that stank the place out.

Also I don't know what type of workplace it is, but who identified it as cannabis as opposed to a bag of hemp to make sails for model boats etc and more to the point how was the identification carried out, apologies if the workplace was in fact, a pathology lab or similar.

The problem with these type of cases (with or without a specific policy) is that the case against him only has to be based on 'the balance of probability' which means that the employer might only need to be 51% certain of the misconduct existing to take any action.
I would expect this type of issue to be covered in an overarching policy relating to conduct in the workplace.

I am not sure how strong their case would be if the 'evidence' was no longer available and the guy was able to suggest that the whole situation constituted a constructive case.

In this circumstance there would be very little chance of the employer being able to prove beyond reasonable doubt that they had acted in accordance with employment law never mind any specific policy.

The exception might be in the case of specific jobs which could request urine (fairly reliable) or swab (very unreliable) tests although these would normally need to be conducted in accordance with the guidance of a policy or protocol. otherwise human rights laws come into effect.
In such cases it is likely that if he smokes regularly any tests could/would show the presence of cannabis for several weeks after it was last used. This might shift the onus onto impairment to perform his job (driving etc).

All the best
Mike

[Polarbear]

I have random D&A tests in my job, positive and its instant dismissal. I work with machinery and have people under me relying on my judgement so no complaints there.

If I was an employer I might not be bothered about an un opened bottle of wine in someones bag, although it should really have been bought after work, but illegal drugs, no, sack him. He either had them to use himself or did an illegal act buying or selling them and if it came out that drugs were on the work premesis H&S and the police would be involved. You really don't want that.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[LordShaftesbu...]

[killa]

If there is no formal policy written he could get some legal advice. Whilst cannabis is illegal (not sure why) you can be arrested but if it is found to be a personal amount then often you’d be let off with a warning and a note on your criminal record you were stopped.
I think there is also a big difference between having drugs on you and actually being on drugs at work.
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Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.
Bike:- Yamaha TRX850 | Killas Biking History | Killas Gaming History | Killas autmotive history

[oldpink]

really sucks that company's can get away with actions like this
I'm quite fortunate that my boss used to send me to the nearest coffee shop to by him hash
he once told me (joking) that if I passed a drugs test I'd get sacked

working in the cannabis industry does have some advantages
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Theory & hazard 24-may 2016, CBT 8th June 2016, MOD 1 2nd Aug 2016 Mod 2 2nd-Nov 2016 - Current bike CBR 600 RR

[J0Al1]

Not surprised, chap where I worked got sacked on the spot for circulating porn. He was rather think and mostly stoned too.

[DrDonnyBrago]

I'd have sacked him too.

There is the capacity for some very bad press/bureaucratic crap if the business premises were found to have drugs or an employee was found with drugs on them by an outsider.

[P.addy]

Shit myself there... Thought BBQ would be off...

[G]

[DrDonnyBrago]

[G]

Think the vast majority of places I've worked people have brought drugs in at some point - not to smoke at work, just because they had some where to go after, to sort out a mate, etc.
Don't see the problem with it myself.

Suspect many on here have ridden to work on a bike that's 'illegal' at some point.

If people were obviously intoxicated at work, understandable.
Or a case mentioned by someone about how someone was disciplined/fired for generally being 'pro drugs' - but it turned out the background was they were also sorting prescriptions for them and their friends that were not in any way relevant.