Simo for third Ducati

[rac3r]

https://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-racing-news-moto-gp/simoncelli-linked-to-third-ducati/18577.html

Interesting
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[Frost]

Ducati are is the shit right now. Their new bike is worse than the old one and even if they switch to a conventional frame they're still playing catch up.
Aoyama has been unimpressive as marco's sort-of-team-mate, Dovi has done alright so far on the factory honda but i don't forsee when running a third one next season. I predict next season will be Pedrosa & stoner on factory honda's with Dovi and Marco on factory supported satelite bikes rather like marco's this year.

[rac3r]

I think italy would explode if Marco joined. Imagine Rossi and Marco both on Ducati's

I agree that they need to sort them out though!
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[Frost]

Marco is a cult figure in italy as they liked having a 250 champion, but Rossi is the superstar. An Italian on a Ducati i can see the sense in as it'll be worth a shit load in advertising and promotional sales, but i don't see that things would improve by adding a second less famous Italian?
If Rossi doesn't help ducati sort that bike out and win races next season i can see him leaving for another team to try to win again before retiring, or maybe just retiring. In that situation Marco would be near certain at Ducati.
So perhaps another year at Honda to see how Ducati do, see what Rossi does then him to Ducati? Or maybe he'll replace Hayden? I can Hayden on a Tech 3 if Edwards retires or Cal doesn't perform.

Btw those Moto1 bikes are very uncompetitive and suzuki are still uncertain how many bikes they're going to have, so riding options will be limited.

Whats needed is a Moto2 sized grid with Honda's Ducati's Yamaha's Suzuki's Kawasaki's Aprillia's BMW's MZ's KTM's Triumph's MV's Cagiva's etc
The problem is that sports bike sales aren't doing well as most 'ordinary' bikes are quick enough and people like a bit of comfort and usability, so spending millions developing tech that's hard to use on road bikes is a bit pointless.

[robbieguy2003]

I could see Marco coming on. Yamaha have got their factory lineup sorted for a few years and i cant see him hanging around at Honda on lesser machinery, it'll just annoy him.

I think both Hayden and Rossi are cemented on the duke for the near future. At the end of the day, now Stoner has gone, short of the test riders Hayden is the only constant to gauge progress against (pre stoner/post stoner).

I reckon Ducati will do one of two things with this frame, either;

1) They'll stick with it and hope it works, it might not pay off, it hasn't for years. Bridgestone are introducing some new tyres, at the end of the day no one is getting feel in the front, apparantly due to the chassis. If they give some more flex in the right places it might suddently become an awesome bike. Didn't Schwantz have massive issues for ages with the USD forks on the RGV? It didn't work for ages then suddenly it came right and he got going on it. The same could happen but it'll be hard work. If they get it right though they might have a nice advantage. I really want to see this as there are a fair few customer dukes so it could shake the field up a bit.

2) They call it a day and go with a traditional frame. This I think is there best option unless someone has a way of getting more feel into that bike. Only issue with this is unless the team have some lovely information from Yamaha and Honda, or a real interesting way of designing a frame they'll be playing catchup on it. At best it should put them on a level playing field.

I am pretty sure that they're trying to sort the situation out. Stoner rode the bike amazingly well. Rossi has by no means suddenly became shite, and Hayden was always an excellent rider.

I think the brutal style that Stoner has suited the bike, he seems to ride very aggressively which I think will put more heat into the tyre than a style like Rossi which is uber smooth. I think Marco might do ok on it, but riders like Dani and Lorenzo wouldn't work on it.

Obviously all the above is my own rambling, I base it on very loose theories and what I read in the press..
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Current Bikes: Honda CBR 600RR - '07, Suzuki GSX1250 FA ST '11
Old Bikes: Suzuki Intruder 125 LC - '2001, Honda CBR 600F - '92, Honda CBR 600RR - '03

[Frost]

Marco isn;t really on lesser machinary, his bike is factory spec, he just doesn't have a factory team working with him.

Ducati are understandably heavily invested in the carbon non frame, but why did they make the damn thing? For fun? To see if they could? To be the first? No. They did it to try to gain an advantage and win races, which they're not doing. I expect to see then running a starndard frame on a bike before the season is out.

I think stoner doesn't do bike development or much in the way of setup, he just gets on it and rides as hard as can be done. That worked well at Ducati where everybody else has been trying to understand the bike and set it up as they like, he just got on with it. But that hurt bike development towards the end and Ducati knew it. Since moving to honda he's had a good bike and has gone well of it, being utterly dominant at the start of the year. But as time has passed the other honda riders have got the bike to their liking and started to catch up and even go faster, stoner is again not developing the bike to suit himself.
I think by the end of the year he'll be riding at 105% again trying to win races and will be back to his previous ways and crashing every other session.

I think the Brits that have come over from superbike racing have done the same in recent years. They've got on a bike and just pushed and pushed to get themselves up the order, but then struggled when everybody elses feel for the bikes has improved throughout the year. Look at Cal, great start, few crashes, complaining about front end feel not and not doing so well. I can't help but feel he's used to superbike power which is a big advantage over the 250 & moto2 boys, but he's not used to such a stiff bike or so much electronics. I've always thought this and felt like the brits will only do well when a few make it up from 125's which finally seems to be happening.
If i were in charge at Tech 3 Cal would be getting his P45 and Bradly smith would be on the bike next season

[rac3r]

Thing is Ducati HAVE to get the bike sorted because the new 1199 uses the same sort of frame. I reckon they should be able to sort it, remember Rossi hasn't had Burgess with him in the last two races and since they had the 11.1

Rossi also said he wants to try WSB next
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[robbieguy2003]

[Frost]

The stiffness of the frame isn't the whole problem though, it's the fact it uses the engine as a stressed member, which has no flex at all. You can build flex into the frame, but that's not where the neccisarily need the flex.

Elias has always been very smooth and easy on tires, that helped no end on a moto2 bike that will want to spin up the back end and wreck the tires. You can see how much they back it into the corners, with people like Iannone out of tires with 5 laps to go. But in MotoGP Elias has struggled to get the tires up to temperature. So in the cold or wet conditions where everybody else has that problem, he does much better. He's still regularly beating Aoyama who is also on a Honda. It doesn;t looked good though does it? Moto2 champion struggles like hell in MotoGP, but then Aoyama was a 250 champion...

MotoGP is still the Moto2 support race in my opinion, which is a bit shit cause there isn;t one this weekend

[rac3r]

Post Fail
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[rac3r]

Yeah but Laguna is awesome Id like moto2 there just to see all those bikes go round the corkscrew
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Bikes : 2006 CBR125R - 2004 Monster 620ie - 2004 ZX-6R B1H - 2005 Monster S2R 800 - 2011 Street Triple - 2009 Streetfighter 1098 - 2014 ZX-6R 636

[robbieguy2003]

[Frost]

Most MotoGP rounds i could score a points finish on a pushbike, and i'm pretty fat
15 bikes start, 13 finish and by the end of the race they can be 3-4 second between each of them. At the end of a Moto2 race 4 seconds can cover most of the top 10!
I used to pity the Moto2 & 125 commentators for getting no real TV coverage, now i pity the MotoGP commentators for having to try to make a precession sound interesting. I think even F1 has overtaken MotoGP for excitement these days, especially qualifying.
MotoGP needs to limit electronics so the bikes move about a lot more and corner lines aren't mm perfect so overtaking becomes possible, 1000cc production based engines with something extra to differentiate them from superbikes, 40 rider grid, F1 style qualifying and importantly fewer races in bloody spain! The spanish buy all the bikes they can, how;s about trying to show the asians what a real high performance bike is, then maybe they'll get some new sales fromt he racing and a few more manufacturers will be tempted in!

[Deckx]

if Rossi doesn't get the Ducati sorted, which he clearly seems to be struggling with...he'd be better off staying well clear of it.. i think if Rossi could hit re-wind, he wouldn't make the same move

[Al]