I was caught excesv.speeding in Wales! Help/advice please!

[speedoh]

Fellow bikers and bikers to be...


I got clocked at doing between 100-110mph over in West Wales!

I have to attend court over there in a couple of weeks, after receiving the summons in the post. I live in London, and was in Wales on business. Currently trying to move the court case to a London court, or postpone the date a bit.


Can anyone please give me advice on what i should/shouldn’t say in court, in regards to this case?


Although i don’t agree with everything the officer has put in his statement, i will be pleading guilty to the speeds recorded; my only aim now, is to hopefully mitigate the damage to my licence and my work/financial/life situation.

I have talked to a few lawyers for some free advice, and they have helped a bit on how i should act and so forth, but they seem to keep hammering home that without any form of representation, i could get a much worse punishment. However, after some discussion last night, i have been informed that turning up with any form of representation may be an insult to the magistrates. My cash flow isn’t that great lately, so not too keen on having a lawyer in any case (can cost from £500-£800!).
Your thoughts please?


I’m pretty dam sure i did all my observations, as normal, as i remember the event quite clearly, yet the police say they were following me for quite some time, mile or two, can’t quite understand the officer’s statement too well. They say they flashed their lights at me to get me to pull over, and that i never responded. I just don’t understand where they came from and how it is possible to say they were following me for that long, when i did check my mirrors, then again, i can get caught out in court if i say this, as i am pretty sure i did all my observations, when evidently they can indicate i did not. Curse my tiny mirrors, argh!
Am i allowed to request video evidence of this, or is that stirring the hornet’s nest? (jokes aside!)

Facts against me?!:

-I stayed in the second-hand/fast lane!
-Police flashed lights at me, but no response by myself.
-Vascar speeding equipment, accurate?
-The officer has obviously quoted me admitting to the offence in the car, and i did sign something, but cant recall exactly what it was now. I was shocked when they told me how fast i was going, as i was surprised i was going ‘that’ fast, and for ‘that long’. (Does that mean ive just signed my life over, so they can do what they please to me now?)

Is it stupid/pointless to say this: “I am pleading guilty, as stated to the police officer in his car, i am so sorry, that i was going faster than the speed limit. I was quite amazed that i had gone over a 100mph, as i do not usually cover these sort of speeds, (they should have that recorded in the police car right?) and on that specific model of bike, Honda Hornet (un-faired), it is not particularly favourable going at those speeds, due to wind blast etc.. I did such speeds only as a momentary lack of judgement after losing track of the time, and only after doing my full observations of the surrounding environment- straight road, no exits, no other road users in sight etc. to ensure it was safe to do so.”

And this:
“I have ridden it on private land at that speed and because it is a ‘naked’ bike (with no aerodynamic fairing for higher speeds), it is not very comfortable, hence me doing it only at that one particular time, under the right conditions. I know this is not a valid excuse to break the speed limit, in any case, but please try to understand the situation of my vehicle/motorcycle and my point that i do not ‘speed’, generally, and this is not a full-on sports bike.
But as i have said, i am willing to accept the consequences of my actions.
.....with a growing passion for motorcycles, i urge you to please, please consider my unique situation, and judge it on its own ‘factors/positives/negatives/merits’[dif word needed here].
I have no car driving licence, so have always been very reliant on my motorcycle licence over the 5 year period i have been riding motorbikes. That said, i have had much less for it over this summer, and i can live without the bike for a few months, until i start applying for some new jobs in November.”

If i say the last sentence, it somewhat suggests/hints at how they should punish me, doesn’t it?, as i have been warned that this can make matters alot lot worse! And will just get a bigger fine potentially.

Facts in my favour?!:

-Dual carriageway, straight road, no exits.
-No other road users around.
-Hot sunny day/good road conditions.
-600 Hornet, old model, naked - (though maybe they could use this against me, as, at higher speeds, it is harder to control, due to wind blast and so on?) I was going to mention in court or in my covering letter, that it is not very nice to myself as the rider to ride that fast, hence it was only a momentary lapse of judgement and the circumstances (of me looking at the time and realising i was late etc.) that i decided to go faster than i usually do.
-A small stretch of a temporary 50mph speed limit in the middle (which i overlooked sadly).

Facts about myself:

-23/male/London, single, no kids.
-Currently unemployed and not on benefits, of any sort! Living off my savings (Been told this is in my favour, as it shows im trying to stand on own 2 feet etc., this true?).
-Furthermore, still have a massive student debt, past job was shit wage, so, slow progression.
-4/5 years riding experience.
-4 years provisional (2 cbts etc.), and full licence for over a year.
-Clean licence, nothing on record.
-4 years no claims on insurance.
-Passed mod 1 and 2 tests and theory first time.

Now i’m sure i’ll sound like everyone else, here, but i don’t usually speed, i only decided to speed momentarily, after noticing the time, and realising i was late. This was a business trip, and was important, i even handed the phone over to the officer in the car, as i had to ring up and apologise to the people i was trying to meet up with. So that at least supports what i have said.

I’m hoping to only receive a temporary ban/disqualification for 2-4 months and a small fine, maybe with 3-5 points max, therefore hopefully avoiding having to resit my test and a hefty fine, as both incur costs either way. Is this realistic?


I am eternally grateful for any help i can get at this stage.
Feel free to private message me if necessary


Many apologies if i come across as an utter wanker in any way, but i assure you, i am not!



[size=7]Sentencing guidelines:
Speed Limit Actual Speed Sentence
20 - 30mph up to 10mph faster 3 points
11 - 20mph faster 4 or 5 points
21 - 30 mph faster 6 points *
40 - 50 mph up to 15mph faster 3 points
16 - 25 mph faster 4 or 5 points
26 - 35 mph faster 6 points *
60 - 70 mph up to 20mph faster 3 points
26 - 30 mph faster 4 or 5 points
31 - 40 mph faster 6 points *

Under the New Driver Act, if you get 6 points on your licence within the first two years, you will lose your licence. The result will be that you return to being a provisional licence holder and must retake both theory and practical test, be accompanied by an appropriate full licence holder while you are driving and display red L plates.[/size]

ps. Oh and thanks again phil for the initial advice
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[CarlosCBR]

Just going to have to bend over and take it im afraid.
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[duhawkz]

https://velocity.t-nation.com/forum_images/auto/r/350x0/9/9//998600.1143931097387.you-gonna-get-raped.jpg

sorry nothing more useful to add really
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[plugger147]

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[yuri2085]

All I can say is if you are this eloquent in court it will probably go in your favour, don't have any more helpful advice.

[andys675]

get a lawyer, I recommend Charles fraser macnamara, they're in halesowen near birmingham

[salty21]

just plead guilty by post if your not wanting to fight for your license. saves so much hastle .
The worst part about turning up in person isnt the standing before the magistrates. It's the hours upon hours of waiting about in a room full of low life jeremy kyle types that kills you, that for me is worse than any punishment the court gives you.

They always seem to say arrive at 9.45am. The last time i went i didnt get in till 3pm so lost a full days wage ontop of the fine.

Damage limitation, guilty by post ftw
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[wiltsgixer]

mate, get a laywer, and get either mr loophole type or get a local one there, happy to chat about my speeding last year explain what I did etc. though scotland not wales might help. PM me if you want a natter fella. Ben.

[swiftb]

[MaybeGuy]

''i was such an inconsiderate road user. Since the incident I have rethought my entire approach to riding as it has opened my eyes to the damage I could have caused to others, their families and myself''

Quote: Mattsprattuk (or thereabouts)

Offence:
Overtaking an unmarked police car on 1 wheel.

Punishment:
4 points, £70 fine.

I have learned my lesson...

saying 'i didnt realise' is bullshit. Just say you knew you were a cunt, and have been scared straight.
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Blue_SV650S wrote: it was a sh1te wheelie, but it proves that he can get it up in 3rd and can do angles. In summery, mattsprattuk is a gobby little sh1tebag, dopehead tw4t, but sadly for all of us, he probably isn't THAT full of sh1te!!
Kickstart wrote: Hi I tend to agree with Matt. All the best Keith

[Kickstart]

[Frost]

As soon as it's triple figures it's very very likely to be a ban. But as above probably no points.
You've admitted the offence of going that speed to a police officer, it probably doesn;t matter what actual speed you were going. Just like when they ask if you know how fast you were going back there? And you say 80, even if they only caught you doing 70 you've still admitted to doing 80.

[Conon]

[Rogerborg]

They Mind Tricked you into admitting the offence at the time, you're pretty much SOL now. If you did over 100 through a 50mph limit (with a valid temporary traffic regulation order) then you really don't want to say that you "overlooked" it - that hardly helps your position. Over 100 and double the limit are both grounds for a ban, so yes, you really are looking at a raping.

Go ahead and request the video evidence though, it can't hurt you if you're planning to go guilty anyway, and it may be exculpatory.

If you go guilty, then I'd suggest that you throw up your hands to the offence rather than trying to explain it away[1], and focus more on the effect that a ban would have on you - jobseeker, visiting your sainted aunt, chaaaaridy work with monger kids, whatever bleeding heart sob story you can up with. The concrete thing that you can do is to "sell"[2] your "powerful" bike, sign up for IAM training or similar.

[1] If you did get clocked at a genuine 110 on a naked bike, are you really going to argue that you didn't realise that you were doing an indicated 115 - 120 or thereabouts? Really?

[2] By "sell", I mean transfer the V5 to a mate until the case is over.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Paulington]

I agree with Kickstart here, it's going to be either a short ban or hefty points.

Chances are, in my opinion, you'll be looking at two options:

A) Up to a two month ban and £1000 fine.

B) 6 Points and up to £1000 fine.

I think you're better off with the ban and fine personally.

Either way, you're going to get shoved by the long arm of the law.
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CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[Jayy]

You need a pretty good set of mitigating circumstances to get off lightly. I had to lay it on thick to get off a 61 in a 30 with a 28 day ban. At least you weren't doing 'over double' the speed limit which they take a dim view of.

I didn't use a solicitor either, I went down the same route as you, took free legal advice and they too bombarded me with the "you need professional legal representation" rants but in the end, I decided I would do it myself and keep the £600 they wanted. Way I looked at it, what happens if I lost anyway? £600 down the pan and the fine they would give me and the increase in insurance. Glad I did do that as well because my insurance went from £300 FC up to £600 TPF&T on the same bike.

[st3v3]

Jesus, you knew you were speeding, got caught and accepted it. Just man up and bite the bulet.
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[Biker Alex]

[Fortuna]

[Visitor Q]

'un te o in te ge gog, shaggur daffyd'

I'll kick you in the nuts, sheep shagger.

Should help
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[js]

A mate got a one weeks ban £400 fine for clocking 96 on the a5 north Wales. You my son are fooked....
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Ducati Hypermotard

[doggone]

All the technical stuff about it being a naked bike and such will go over their heads.

I'd also be inclined to not attend the hearing but plead guilty by letter, with a *brief* apology and comment about how you are usually very cautious but enjoying the good road conditions/weather/scenery you simply weren't aware of the speed "and were just keeping up with the traffic flow".

You may escape a ban if you make a big thing of being put out of work without a licence.

[T.C]

Firstly (having had a bit of experience of speed enforcement), the alleged offence occured in Wales, the case will not be moved to a London court unless it was to be part of a larger or more serious ongoing case.

The fact that it happened in Wales does not work in your favour as they are particularly hot on clamping down on speeding motorcycles and are often seen to use motorcycles for the purposes of setting an example.

If you refer to the "Fast Lane" as part of your evidence that will work against you. There is no such thing and some magistrates consider that as absolute ignorance as it really winds them up.

Does it say anywhere that there is video evidence? There is no legal requirement to video the offence, it may simply have been a following check using VASCAR, and in 20 years + of using the equipment, I have never know a callibration or use issue unlike some other speed measuring devices.

VASCAR measures speed on a time over distance basis, so your average speed wil be lower than you actual speed at some stage, so be gratefull you were done by VASCAR rather than a following check against a callibrated speedo.

Because you "Think" you diid your observations does not mean that you actually saw what behind you.

I have followed cars and biles for several miles with blues and sirens going and they still have not seen me. Try that one on, and the court may decide to hit you a bit harder.

If you try and discredit the evidence, that will also work against you. It is very very rare for speed enforcement to be dodgy these days, what tends to screw things up is the paperwork, but would not apply in your case as you were given a verbal NIP.

What may assist you is to plead guilty. What does help sometimes is a character witness to explain to the court how it is out of chracter.

I have done this from time to time for friends where I have explained in my professional capacity how it is out of character and what steps are being taken to minimise the risk of it occuring again, and that has often worked in that the penalty has been more favourable. Last time a friend was given a heavier fine and two extra points rather than losing his licence, and that was for 115 on the M4 in south wales.

You really have no grounds to plead not guillty, all you can do is plead mitigation as to why you should not lose your licence, but unless you can show that it will cause extreme harship and/or poverty, it is unlikely, and 100+ is usually a ban for motorways.
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It is better to arrive 30 seconds late in this world, than 30 years early in the next

[Skudd]

Ask at what speed did you first come to their attention and if they followed you did you then go faster. Ask why they didn't stop you at the first lower speed if it was lower.

Mate a few years back was followed for fifteen or so miles with speeds from 80-115 mph down in Cornwall. He asked the question and the copper didn't have any answer to it so the magistrate calculated the speed time and distance and it put him down to 90mph. Got six points and a £500 fine which for him was a good result as he was due a ban. The fact he went all that way from Liverpool just for the day and pleaded stupidity all helped.
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