Crashed my 916 - suprised with damage - damage to bike added

[Jefr0]

Well yesterday on way to Hastings/Rye I was in a 30 overtaking traffic. The lights were red with about 10 cars in front. No traffic coming over way at all. Traffic on my side stationary. Got to where the van was in the picture and a car came out of no where (he couldn't see me, I couldn't see him)

I should have been aware as there was a petrol garage there.

The car was hidden, the road was clear and the guy didn't need petrol. I think what he has done is thought he would try a different route and wanted to turn around from stationary sitting in traffic for a little bit. So he has made a quick decision whilst indicating to turn in.

I thought it was my fault for overtaking and I should have been aware but my Dad said it could go the other way as I had right to overtake and he should have looked?

Would like to see a view opinions. I've already agreed to pay the damage £200 as to me it's a mistake for me not looking for people turning in so leaving it at that.

Damage to me, 1cm crack on panel. Damage to him, completely caved in rear quarter (old mitsubishi)
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Rides: Honda XR 125 ('03) Honda CBR 600F ('91), Ducati 916 Biposto ('95)

[pinkyfloyd]

From the looks of the diagram thingy you hit him while riding on the wrong side of the road. Also he had his indicators on. You could be done for riding with undue care and attention.

Your fault completly. Yes he should have looked but you shouldnt be across that line in the middle of the road riding in the same lane as oncoming traffic and you should have been aware of what was going on around you.

To put it bluntly. Your insurance is going to rape you.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[c-m]

You should have been filtering slowly and noticed his indicators.

He should have been looking.

50-50
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[GrantT]

[Jefr0]

It's not going through insurance as I've agreed to pay the cash to get it done privately.

I think I've played it safe and done that rather than attempting to go through insurance, don't want to mess around with it.

It was around 10mph crash as I was going slow, I didn't see him because of the van then saw him pretty much in front of me.

Not making excuses, just explaining what happened.
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Rides: Honda XR 125 ('03) Honda CBR 600F ('91), Ducati 916 Biposto ('95)

[Daimo]

Any witnesses? They make or break the case.

Basically, I had similar in london. Filtering downt he outside of traffic waiting at a red light. 2nd gear, 10-15mph. bloke decided to do a U turn, but indicated as he turned. Didn't look, pulled straight out on me and knocked me off.

I fought it, and the bloke changed his story over and over again. Eventually it came down to the witness statement stating that I was travelling slowley and safely and the bloke just indicated and U turned straight into me. But he indicated, doesn't mean he's right in what he's done. There is also no law to say you cannot filter down the other side of the road.

Im afraid to say the witness is a key. No witness, it'll go 50/50.

Otherwise, you've ridden how most bikers ride. The only thing is that you've not anticipated a car pulling out. That can only be gained from experience and knowing not to trust any bugger on the road, moving or not.

[Skudd]

Good on you for taking responsibility. More should when they are at fault. You could argue that he should have seen you, but if his view was blocked and it is not normal ( not normal for car drivers, I know we do it all the time) for a vehicle on a single lane to be overtaken at the lights.

Good on you too for not going through insurance as not only does it cost you in premiums, but it costs all of us in the long run.

Although I would say that in future you take a wider line, if one is available, from the vehicles so that you can see further ahead.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[Nixon]

You are overtaking past a petrol station.

Did it not occur to you that motor vehicles may want to turn into such retail premesis?

Chalk it up to experience and practice your observation skills because next time it might not end up so rosy

[gooner_47]

Can video footage can be used as evidence in 50/50 cases where you don't have a witness?

[drzsta]

your at fault mate, i had a similar accident and policy did me for "careless driving for overtaking on a junction" that comes with 6 points if they dont offer you the ride course which thankfully they offered me!
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Current Bikes - BMW S1000RR ‘17 & KTM 690 SMC-R ‘12

[Tenko]

I had a similar 'off' many years ago coming into Halifax at Hipperholme traffic lights for anybody that knows it. Before they changed the white lines, the road used to be wide enough for two cars for about a mile before tapering down to a car and a bike's width for the 100m going up to the lights. I was going to work and as per usual I found myself following a car wanting to overtake the slow moving traffic by going down the outside. He had his indicator on to overtake, and I followed him. He got all the way to where the road tapers and had to stop as nobody would let him in. Nothing odd there I thought so I waited until nothing was coming the other way and began to go round him to take my rightful position as commuting god at the front to the lights. He was still indicating right, and I assumed he had simply forgotten to cancel as he sat there...

He turned just as I tried to go past, I hit his door and flew over the bonnet. I sat there and pondered about blame. The nice chaps from the 2nd hand car garage opposite helped me up and I considered my situation some more. Meanwhile the driver got more and more upset about the CB750FII sized dent in his precious Cortina, claiming that I was totally at blame and he was simply turning right with his indicator on. We exchanged details and went our seperate ways - him in his dented car and me with slightly bent forks... Bikes were strong in those days.

I asked around for sensible opinions that night, and came to the conclusion that whilst he was technically in the right, we were equally to blame as he should've looked and I shouldn't have assumed. I rang him and agreed to pay him £80 for the damage if he kept it away from the insurance and the plod. He was happy with that so I paid up and didn't hear from him again.

From the way you have described your incident I'd say it is a similar thing. My advice - take it on't chin, treat it as a lucky escape and if you can, avoid insurance companies and the plod as these will only complicate matters and cost you more in the long run.

[GSTEEL32]

Yea, In that situation I'd either be 3/4 the way over the right hand side looking down the entire row of traffic, or I'd be in amongst the drainage on the left hand side.

But it's really only experience that would tell you that, given the fact you learnt your lesson at 30mph, I think you got away fairly lightly.

Your picture highlighted a rear bug bear for me, drivers that sit well right in the lane just so that they can see the traffic ? why ? what could they benefit ?. As you've proved here, all it does is stop drivers being able to use their wing mirrors to check for bikes.

[teuma86]

My friend was driving down a road and went to turn right into a side road.

Indicated and moved to the right side of the lane and stopped due to oncoming traffic.

When the traffic was clear he pulled of and turned right, as he started turning right, a biker was coming up and they collided.

He argued that it was not his fault, he was correctly positioned and was indicating.

it went to a small court where HE was found guilty of reckless driving as he should have checked his mirrors before moving out and the biker was correct to filter.

Although I personally feel, if we as a biker is going to filter through traffic, weather it be in the middle of 2 lanes or on the right of single lanes. it is OUR responsibility to observe possible risks. Such as possibility of cars pulling out between traffic, possibility of cars changing lane.

If I see an opening in the traffic ahead I either slow down or take a wider line (or BOTH, depending on situation, other traffic) to make sure that opening is clear.

But personal opinion and a good lawyer are 2 different things.
If you have admitted fault, then its too late. Even if it was NOT your fault, once fault has been admitted, it is impossible to change.

[P.addy]

[bazza]

[teuma86]

Let see if I remember this quote correct from my Driving Standards Officer.

"Vehicle Indicators are an INDICATION to other road users about the intent of your next maneuver."

It does not stipulate that you WILL make this move, nor does it stipulate that other road users should give way.

If I am filtering near a set of lights and I see right indicators, I would believe the vehicle is indicating that they wish to turn right at the set of lights.

But on the same note. They CAN argue the fact of filtering too quick, not allowing yourself or other road users to react to your presence.

As regards to the indicators, they mean feck all.
The van SHOULD have looked, but his vision was blocked.
YOU should have looked but your vision was blocked.

So in theory, it should be the vehicle which was blocking both your view points. Like hell that will ever stand up tho.

[Jefr0]

Thanks for the feedback, quite a lot of mixed views.

I'm happy learning the lesson and getting away with paying a little bit rather than insurance etc then possibility of points or getting done for this or that as some people have mentioned.

Natural instinct for me would have been to stop at the side of the van and check for any cars which I wouldn't be able to see but this one time I made the mistake.

I commute 5 days a week into London so was quite annoyed when I realised it could have been prevented.

IMO as the traffic was stationary and no cars had come the over way in a while I think it was a quick decision to do a U turn (well turn in garage and out garage exit)

Can't believe the damage to the Duc though, made of steel! I think I 'endo'd' into the car with the front left headlight. No damage anywhere else and tyre didn't hit car.

The structure of the Duc saved alot of the damage. You have the main frame then the headlight frame is in line, then a solid headlight.

Headlight is intact, only damage is the lil crack after I gave the panel a quick polish.

Would you leave the panel as is? Or repair or replace? I'm tempted to keep as is, and maybe some sort of glue behind the fairing for support.
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Rides: Honda XR 125 ('03) Honda CBR 600F ('91), Ducati 916 Biposto ('95)

[teuma86]

That is the ONLY damage on your bike. you got of lightly. (Take back what I said about enough time for you to react, looks like you did a good job reacting )

[Jefr0]

Yeah just that. You can see light marks (barely noticable) from where I've given it a polish. The car came off really bad, the entire rear quarter had caved in, I was suprised with the damage to mine.

I was breaking heavy (and I had girlfriend on the back - she's ok) the rear wheel locked and I think last second before I would have hit the car it endo'd into it locking the front wheel. Was just glad I kept upright as I landed sideways.
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Rides: Honda XR 125 ('03) Honda CBR 600F ('91), Ducati 916 Biposto ('95)

[GSTEEL32]

[Jefr0]

[Ingah]

I'd call it at 50/50.
You should not filter past when there's a turning. I would make a clear differentiation between "overtaking past a junction" and filtering slowly up a queue past a junction, as they're clearly not the same thing to anyone who lives in a logical and real world.
Cager should check mirrors and blind spot before pulling any such maneuver.
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-- Ingah

[colin1]

I was in a similar situation and I considered it a 50/50, and as it was similar damage to both vehicles, I suggested not going through insurance. The car driver insisted on going through insurance and it went 100% in my favour.
Basically, you are allowed to overtake, even if it's unwise at junctions. I'm counting the BP entrance as a junction.

The point is, that the car crossed your path, and the car driver failed to check his wing mirror before changing direction. He may not have considered the possibility that he was being overtaken, but that is his ommission, not yours.

So be more careful in future, but the car driver was more at fault than you.
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colin1 is officially faster than god