MOD 2 FAILED - Unfair Examiner

[VespaMick]

Hi All,

I'm new to the forum... I just wanted to share my experience of what happened to me on the MOD 2 and feel the examiner was unfair in my case.

I failed my MOD 2 yesterday, but am feeling more annoyed than disappointed as I thought I had a very safe ride with only one minor fault that I could see. That was riding under 30MPH on a road that was not marked with speed limits but to me looked like a 20MPH Zone, with School Crossing signs, speed bumps, SLOW painted on the road, etc.

If he had failed me on that alone I would just be disappointed and know not to make the same mistake next time...

But I'm worried now as Examiner Opinion is something you can't train for. The examiner viewed the test differently and gave me 9 minor faults and 2 serious faults. Faults I know I did not make.

One in particular, he said my positioning was not correct. But I kept to the middle of my lane perfectly, only deviating slightly a couple of times to give on coming vehicles more space, keeping clear of parked cars. Basically taking the dominant position on the road as I've been told to do. Positioning faults seem a bit vague to me, I still don't know what I did wrong there.

On Mini Round Abouts, he said my line across the round about was "too straight" though I did not ride over the painted circle at all. So is it even worth mentioning? How would me riding a sharper line over a mini round about effect anybody?

At the Independent riding part, he showed me a diagram of three round abouts and told me to follow as shown. I did that, but when it came to the second round about - where the diagram said to turn right - I was half way around when he says, "no, you're going the wrong way" and then tells me "ignore the Mini round about. Just go straight over that one". I just did exactly what the diagram showed. So, actually there were 4 round abouts, but I had to ignore the second one, (not on the diagram) because it's just a mini round about and doesn't count?

On the part where you pull over at a safe place, I stopped in a space between two driveways, a 10 feet long space running parallel with a garden wall, not blocking ether of the driveways. But when he pulled up behind me, he asked me to move my bike forward a bit so his Bike wouldn't be blocking a drive, which I did and that meant my front wheel was now over hanging a drive. Is that my fault?

Joining the dual carriageway from the ramp, he said I "drifted" onto the carriageway, and added, "didn't you hear me gasp?!" Err, no. I didn't, and there was no reason to because I joined the carriageway perfectly at the right speed with the appropriate mirror checks, signal, life saver etc. There was nothing really unusual about it. But it's just a matter of opinion I guess.

Well, I'm probably not the best person to give MOD 2 advice, but I can just say; exaggerate your movements on the test. Make sure the examiner can see your head turn when giving a lifesaver or checking your mirrors. Go AROUND the mini round abouts, even though nobody else does. That's not to say I ride over the painted circle, I don't. And on joining a carriageway join it asap, don't drift into it smoothly, as I apparently did. Though I can't see how veering onto the carriageway will make it any safer.

I think Examiners should have to write why they failed someone on the green sheet and be very specific on all the faults. That might stop people being failed because the examiner just didn't like them.

To my disappointment, MOD 2 is not like other tests where it is solely down to you whether you pass or fail, like the Theory Test or Mod 1. You can ether remember the answers, or do the maneuvers or you can't. It's down to you. MOD 2 depends a lot on your examiner. If he doesn't like something about you he can fail you and just give a vague reason.

Cheers

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Examiners in my experience don't fail people for no reason or have vendettas.

You didn't meet the required standard. Deal with it.

It's like any other form of test. You HAVE to exaggerate everything so they know you're doing it.

Just get a retest and take on board the feedback from your first test.
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[Quornholio]

I failed my first test on what I thought was an unfair decision, but after mulling it over, and doing a bit of research, I think I agree with the examiner.

[Daytona Paul]

[N cee thirty]

i'd just go a different test centre

i got failed a few times,twise by the same guy and then i passed with no minors at the same test centre with a different guy,alot of luck is involved aswell
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'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[joshdudeha]

I understand where the op was coming from. I felt like the examiner I had today was rude and impolite. I was so angry when I left the centre, but after thinking about it - I was at fault.
Yes, he was rude - heck he didn't even bother about the independent riding properly (just had to go in a straight line for five minutes) - but I was wrong.

It didn't help that it was pissing it with rain, you get angry and disappointed and it makes you feel like this. If you really do feel that the test wasn't conducted properly however, do complain.
But I do understand how you feel
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Piaggio Zip 50 -> Yamaha YBR 125 -> Kawasaki GPZ500S '96 -> Suzuki GSF600N Bandit -> Honda CBR 600FW
Theory Test: 13/07/2011 Passed! | Mod 1: 27/07/2011 Passed! | Mod 2: 17/11/2011 Passed!!!!!

[Benson_JV]

I can understand how you feel, it is bloody fustrating. I didn't pass my mod 2 until the 3rd time.
The first time, I was nervous and cocked up and I accept it, I know I cocked up.

The second time, apparently I missed a lifesaver on the same roundabout as I failed on the first time, now I know for a fact I did this lifesaver as I remember thinking to myself 'this is the same island, I'll doubly over exaggerate everything'.
To this day I still know for a fact I did that lifesaver and it may have been that he was doing his at the same time or whatever.
But..at the end of the day, it isn't going to change anything and hopefully next time you shall pass.

Good luck bud.
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Willson - "If you go out on that CBR600 in the winter, you're going to do more miles on your side than on your wheels."
Riding: CBR600FW Driving: Audi A6
Previous Bikes: '96 Bandit 600, '96 GPz305

[Daytona Paul]

[bikertomm]

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5B0Uauh-3Pc/ShM_YyLvQfI/AAAAAAAAAMo/Ho6irJ8FYL0/s400/aw_jeez_not_this_shit_again2.jpg
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07' Honda Hornet now full powaah! My guide on performing an oil change!

[Benson_JV]

[pinkyfloyd]

Bottom line. You failed. Whinging and whining about it wont change matters. You think the instructor was unfair, then thats your perogative but bear in mind that this instructor has probably been doing it for years and will know more about riding a bike than you will ever learn and that 10 minutes after you leave he'll be back out on the road with another test to do.

I dont want to sound harsh because I know where your coming from. I failed twice myself. Second time I didnt think it was my fault, a car that wasnt anywhere in my view came speeding up the road just after I looked. Even the examiner said the guy shot past him.

If you really think you've been unfairly treated you can complain but even if they review your complaint and find in your favour you still wont pass. You have to sit another test.

Best thing to do is suck it up and make sure you pass next time.

On a side note.

[Codemonkey]

+1 with what everyone else said.

I failed my Mod 1 and thought the examiner was a miserable sod (though I did deserve to fail). I then took it again with a different examiner and failed again (foot down on the figure 8). Thought he was an even more miserable sod cos everything else was perfect, no minors. Then passed Mod 1 with the first examiner. I also got him for Mod 2 and passed that first time so decided he wasn't a miserable sod after all, in fact after the test he came across as quite a decent bloke (I was probably very biased at this point due to the word "congratulations").

[SweenyT]

Hi and welcome to the forum!

It sucks that you failed but I have to agree with what everyone has said. The examiners don't know you and unless you do something spectacularly wrong they wont even remember you the following week. Fair enough he could have been having a bad day but if he didn't pass anyone else at all that day then maybe....

When you re-take your test and you get shown the diagram, perhaps say to him/her 'so you want me to take the third exit/straight ahead etc' so it's clear to you and the examiner. As for roundabouts, being in the wrong lane going round and late/no signalling, mirror checks and lifesavers can cause you to get a serious fault - not saying that you didn't do it right but that they can. Also being in the middle of your lane position is not always the safest - oil/diesel leaks in the middle of the road. Correct me if I'm wrong but the dominant position is usually a little off centre (right car wheel track) and is the one a lot of riders ride in as that way you can be seen by the car(s) in front and by oncoming cars and can move over to the middle/left if necessary. If your road positioning needs to constantly change on the same stretch of road then the examiner may feel that you're not reading the road ahead properly and if he doesn't see you doing mirror checks and lifesavers then he'll fault you (x amount of minors in the same category amount to a serious fault).

As for 'drifting' onto the carriageway, maybe it was the way that you merged with the traffic, you might have caused a car to brake which is a fault or it could have been that the examiner didn't feel the gap you slotted into was big enough or safe enough - a hesitation will only get you a minor, a gasp will get you a fail.

I agree with you that the examiners should be clearer on the sheet when you fail so you can improve on those things but that's why they have the debrief afterwards.

It's unfortunate that you failed but if you're not using a training school then I would ask someone who's had a lot of biking experience and is hopefully a good rider to follow you around the route you took and maybe point out where (if at all) you might have gone wrong.

Just my worth. Good luck on the re-take.
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Current ride - 2005 Suzuki GSX-R600 K4 - 2x 2014 Honda NC750s long term courtesy bikes - 2003 Fazer FZ6 written off as idiot reversed into me - 2009 YBR125 - still have from new

[VespaMick]

Cheers for all your feedback... I will re-take the test as soon as, and just try and make the observations more noticeable.

On the positioning, my instructor with probably over 30 years experience says my positioning is good. I'll go with his opinion because he trained me to take the correct lane when entering round about's, where to position myself for turning left/right at junctions, keeping a safe distance from parked cars, etc. Which I did.

I know I made one clear error, that was riding too slow in a 30MPH zone. Fair enough.

At the end of the day, I believe it is in their interest to fail a certain number of candidates to keep themselves in a job. I'd say probably 90% of us demonstrate safe riding ability and should pass first time, but the Govt. are not likely to pass up an opportunity to screw people for a few ££££ and will sooner fail you for something petty like not making a lifesaver obvious enough or riding just under the speed limit.

[Izzbust]

Quote...At the end of the day, I believe it is in their interest to fail a certain number of candidates to keep themselves in a job. I'd say probably 90% of us demonstrate safe riding ability and should pass first time, but the Govt. are not likely to pass up an opportunity to screw people for a few ££££ and will sooner fail you for something petty like not making a lifesaver obvious enough or riding just under the speed limit.


Thats rubbish. The examiners are not going to fail anybody for doing nothing wrong!!!!

Man up and do it again with positive attitude.

A missed lifesaver might be just the one that gets you knocked off one day..................so get it right and youll be safer and pass your test.

You wouldnt cross the road as a pedestrian without looking would you?.......so why change direction on a road riding a motorbike without looking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pinkyfloyd]

[bigguy]

Wow, i think if i fail my mod 2 i will just say to you guys i failed cos the last thing you need is a lecture but in saying that im sure most of you guys are correct about the examiners, when i failed my mod 1 i thought the examiner was a bit harsh and wanted to quit riding a bike but as i left the test centre i stopped a little further down the road and got off the bike had a quick think to myself about it and realised the examiner was really excellent, just before every manoeuvre he made sure i understood him clearly and even gave me a wink when telling me on the last one to make sure the speed was up on the swerve(but i missed the damn thing)cos i had no minors on my sheet at the end of the test just a serious for the missed swerve. second time on my test the other guy was the same very cheerful but reassuring then after the test in the debrief he shook my hand and said congratulations on passing mod 1(i hope i get him for my mod 2) these guys dont get paid any extra if you pass or fail they just want to see people riding bikes in a safe manner whilst out on a test, how many people actually ride as safe after they have passed cos i have passed loads of bikers and the lifesavers they should be doing are nowhere to be seen,,but the most important thing is THEY DONE IT ON THE DAY, so like the guys say get your chin up and re-book and good luck mate.

[swampy]

100% agree with the majority of posters here.. if ya fail its for a reason.

It has however got me thinking a bit. Would it be beyond the realms of possibility for the examiner to have a forward mounted camera on his bike when following you.

He could then demonstrate rather than just explain where you went wrong, and would be a better learning tool than just a vague comment about obs...

Perhaps the could flog you a copy too and make a bit of extra cash..

With an added by product of me never having to listen to another noob moaning about how harsh the examiner was
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"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death..." Hunter S Thompson

[bigguy]

Hey swampy that sounds a really good idea about the vid cam and possibly paying for a copy , plus the fact if you are doing the test on your own bike then you would know what route to take when out practicing before your next test,,nice 1 mate..

[VespaMick]

[Rogerborg]

tl;dr

Complain to the DSA if you think you've got grounds. If you don't, who will?
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Paulington]

You failed, get over it.

Go appeal and cry to the DSA, no matter what you do they cannot change the result of the test.

Also, I don't see you showing me your IAM certificates, RoSPA certificates and various training required to get up to examiner standard? Questioning an examiner when you are just taking you test and bleating about "Oh well I didn't see me doing those faults" is naive and silly. How you look riding the bike is a world away from how you look from behind in the eyes of an observer.

Examiners don't fail people for the sake of failing people, if he thinks you didn't meet the standard, you didn't meet the standard.

Rebook the test and maybe some training, then you can pass it.
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"Four wheels move the body, two wheels move the soul."
Current Vehicles: '89 Kawasaki KDX200, '99 Yamaha XV535, '00 Honda ST1100 Pan-European, '08 Suzuki GSX-R1000, '08 Mitsubishi Lancer GS4 2.0 TDCi, '15 BMW 1 Series 116d Sport Turbo.
CBT: 27/08/08. Theory: 04/09/09. Module 1: 16/09/09. Module 2: 01/10/09.

[0ddball]

They shouldn't need to make up things to fail a certain number of people. There are already enough poor riders/drivers to genuinely meet that quota if it existed.

99% of people who complain they failed unfairly just have a case of sour grapes. For the other 1% there probably are a few examiners who are a bit off. I'm sure some take against people if they turn up all cocky and have the wrong attitude. There might even be a few who give you a grilling if they didn't get any the night before. But as long as human beings are involved you're going to get that to an extent.

At the end of the day you are not in a position to say whether you were riding well enough, if you were they wouldn't be testing you.
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[anthony_r6]

I passed my Mod 1 first time but I remember thinking the guy seemed a tad on the 'meh' side. Like he didn't want to be there and just wanted to get things over and done with. The test was over very quickly and upon leaving the test course, I just thought to myself 'fail'. Happy to learn that I had passed though!

Then I took my mod 2. First time around I failed after causing a car to slow down when pulling out from behind a vehicle. I knew I'd failed there and then, but we carried on and finished the test. The guy was really cool about it, explained exactly what I did wrong and told me about some of the other minors I'd got.

Then I re-did my test and got a different guy. About 20minutes in, he pulls me over and comes over to me. Asks me if I've been indicating right the whole time. I told him I had and he asked me to check my indicator, sure enough, it was acting up. I gave it a tap and it came back on. The instructor let me carry on, but unfortunately it went right back to faulty and so the test had to be ended. Again the instructor was really nice about it, told me why, and what it did (and didn't) mean for me. Also explained the other minors before he went on his way.

I always have that initial 'I hope he's not a miserable t***' feeling before I meet the guy, but the four test guys I've met (1 car) have all been very nice people, who know what they're talking about.

I've been disappointed twice, but only with myself and my machine. I can't fault these guys.

Mod 2 again on Saturday. Hopefully I'll pass this time Good Luck to yourself, too.
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[Raine]

All of the examiners are fair and want to pass everybody - if the person on test doesn't give them a reason to fail them, then they will pass.

Our senior instructor has been invited to follow whilst a couple of our trainees have been on test and he was surprised at the errors they made on test, but still passed (if he had had them out on a training ride, he would have been pointing out several issues to them) - usually the errors are related to nerves.

The examiners are trained observers, hence their ability to remember everything that has occurred during the ride - just because the rider doesn't think they have caused anybody around them to brake or change direction, doesn't mean they didn't - the examiner is best placed to note this.

At the end of the day, if you ride safely, you will pass - keep cool and calm and concentrate for the whole of the test - make your observations clear - you'll pass - good luck