Small newbie, which bike? Which route?

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Hi, great forum.

Looking for advice. My main reason for wanting to switch from car to bike is simply down to A) getting from A to B faster while commuting and less angry due to sitting behind slow twats and B) cheaper running costs and C) any better parking options while out and about.

With that in mind, are these good enough reasons to shell oit on training, test and bike?

What are the current routes to getting on the road?

I have owned some fairly quick cars and have around 15 yrs car experience so not averse to most options. Budget is reasonable ie less than 5k all in, more if I sold my car, but would rather spend 2k tops, including training, tests, insurance, tax, bike. Gear is separate, will pay more for better protection as I have a few war wounds from other hobbies. I am a big believer in judicious use of speed, so, whilst I've always enjoyed a bit of larry leadfoot when the time is right, I can be sensible and controlled but bigger bikes are probably best avoided for me until I know my and the bike's limits.

Would prefer to be upright due to a bad back and also am small at 5'4 so need some gnome sized options.

Also, what is best for commuting, start on 125 or just bite it and go bigger from the off? Pros and cons of each? Costs? Comfort?

[kerr]

your best bet would be to get the cbt under your belt, give you an idea if its for you and instructor will be able to guide you wether you want to get a 125 first for a bit of experience or go for the full DAS.
bear in mind if you do get rid of the car, all weather riding isnt much fun (iv been told) fair weather rider here and it would all really depend how much you want to ride bikes, if your not really into it getting rid of the car could be a bad choice.
im still a learner and from what iv heard on this great forum is the bigger bikes are more stable and actually easier to ride and cost no more, if even less to run.
be careful of your bike choice too, test ride/sit on as many as you can, depending on where you get your back pain from, sit up tourers can often niggle lower back pain iv heard, and sport bikes can put pressure on your wrists, sports tourer might be better suited.
given your budget youd be able to get your full test done and a good bike for that kind of money, 125s cost a lot for what they are, pass your full test you can get a LOT of bike for your money
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aprilia 125 Af1 Futura >> Suzuki gsxr 600 srad >> J1 zx6r >> cbr 600rr >> Speed Triple

[Teflon-Mike]

[SwitchItUp]

Your presumptions (of which there are many) are simply clueless.

You have no idea how I have obtained injuries (sometimes they are unavoidable and an occupational hazard) so kindly do not make ill-founded, erroneous presumptions about me or my character.

You suggest I would be chasing bikes' limitations on the PUBLIC HIGHWAY. Don't be ridiculous. One CAN enjoy a leadfoot (or hand) well away from the public highway. Are you for real? Give the head a wobble.

As to your keeping mentioning speed, again, you have no idea where and in what context, nor what kind of vehicles. We don't all go blasting around on the public roads, putting ourselves and others at risk now do we. There are other places to enjoy the capabilities of vehicles and use driver skill..hence my comment about judicious use of speed. No need at all to start with the condescending traffic copper routine, I am not some 17 year old that has pinched his father's car.

As to my experience, having owned several of the top rated production cars and having advanced experience, including racing bikes offroad (in a car that would leave most bikes for dead and did do many times) yes I do consider myself able to handle speed, but I also recognise that this does not equate to jumping on a massively powerful bike right away, hence the nature of my comments about probably being better off serving my time so to speak. There's nothing at all exotic about Lancias or Lotus, they are not quick cars in the grand scheme comparatively speaking and no bike will compete with the handling and all round "driveability" of the turbo'd 911s, particularly not when it comes to cornering, nor will most bikes stopping system compete with the ceramic brakes of the top end 911s, I've highly rated the ones I've owned, so no bike will "ruin" my enjoyment of decent marques in the right venues. Bikes are simply different animals. Different tools for different jobs, it is not all about speed. Indeed when its lashing it down, its irrelevant how fast a bike is, a car is the safer tool for the job. End of.

Anyone on the rigs 20 yrs ago could easily afford to chop in a car for a bike. Indeed, you of all people should understand that accidents and injuries are almost an inevitability in some of the more "sporting" pursuits mankind participates in. Making such naive judgment calls without possession of the facts speaks volumes about you as a persn and indeed speaks volumes about the "validity" of your "advice".

As to main reasons listed for considering a bike, outside of practicality/eco-efficiency reasons, it should have gone without saying that FUN is also a big part of it, outside of the usual frustrations with commuting long distances. That, in and of itself, should be a decent enough reason. As you have no idea where I commute and what the conditions are, and indeed where I drive to work or what I wear to work, again you are being presumptuous. Had you asked me it might be different but no, you just waded right in there with unsubstantiated and uninformed suppositions.

I am toying with an idea, so I don't need to "think long and hard more" - an idea was floated, it is in no way a done deal, it is in the concept/feasibility stage, hence also putting a very small budget against anything that does grow legs. If you can't give decent, practical advice minus the sanctimonious BS, don't bother - there's enough timewasters talking/keytapping and not doing elsewhere without deflecting it also in one's hobbies.

[SwitchItUp]

Oh, also, with parking, I must have imagined the multitudes of bike/moped parking spaces (most of them empty) and the copious wasted time circling round and round the oversubscribed always full car parking spaces, where I spend half my life.

Your "theories" may well be valid for YOUR circumstances, but that does not make them applicable for others.

Lessons in objectivity required for you it would seem.

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[Codemonkey]

Whilst Teflon-Mike's post does seem a bit harsh, its all valid to be honest, especially the bit about the time taken to kit up etc. On a good day on my 10 mile commute, I can save 10mins on the time taken in the car due to being able to use the bus lanes (this is permitted in Sheffield but not all cities), but it takes me about 10 mins extra in getting kitted up etc. Some days however its saved me over 1/2 hour when the roads have been gridlocked due to a road closure/accident etc and I've just ridden down the middle of the cars almost the whole way home One thing you didn't state is how long is your commute, and on what type of roads ? Rural or urban ? Do you work in a city centre ? I tend to use mine only for commuting so don't really worry about parking since It's either at home or in the work car park.

I'd advise getting your CBT done anyway just to see if you'll get on with bikes (you probably will, its a lot more fun than cars). Then, since you're already a driver, get the theory test done and then have a go at Module's 1 and 2 on a your own bike (get a 125). Within a year of doing CBT you should easilly be able to do the lot without tuition, and once you pass Module 2 you'd be restricted to a bike producing 33bhp for 2 years which will prevent you hitting warp speed the day after . You can still get a 600cc sports bike, you just have to get it restricted.

I chose a YZF-R125 which is a bit of a sheep in wolfs clothing as far as bikes go, it looks great but is a learner legal 125cc 4 stroke, so max speed about 83mph (on the flat). I Paid £2700 for it used when it was just 6 months old (they're £4K new), it cost me about £250 fully comp to insure on a CBT with 0 no claims (I'm 38), does 110mpg and costs £15 a year to tax. The only thing is the plastic fairings cost a f*cking fortune, so if I were to drop it, it would be a very expensive day (£600+). Everyone will advise you NOT to get a bike like this, but rather go get a CG125 or YBR125 which doesn't look as good, isn't quite as fast, but will cost you just a few quid if you drop it. They'll also generally sell for pretty much the same as you buy them for if you buy one used and just use it to pass the tests.

As for Mike's comments about the guy with the flash cars, well I used to have an Elise S2, and the little R125 puts just as big a grin on my face as that did, but it cost literally 1/10!
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Test Passed 10/05/2011 Current bike: XJ6-N

[kerr]

[Rogerborg]

Don't mind Mike, that's pretty much his boilerplate post.

I do agree with him on running costs though. A modern small turbodiesel will whip most bikes over 250cc at fuel economy. A bike has half the tyres, but goes through them faster. Service intervals are also much lower on the bike, so you'll have to do all the work yourself if you want to keep the costs down.

If running cost is an issue, I'd suggest looking for a YBR 250, which is about as sensible as it gets and should be OK for your height. You'll only need a restricted ("A <= 25kW") license for that, so getting a 125 (YBR 125, CG 125) and passing your tests yourself is a viable option. That'll get you a full A license but with a restriction to 25kW / 33bhp (and 0.16 kg/kW) for 2 years, after which it automatically upgrades to an unrestricted A license that lets you ride anything.

However, if you're likely to want access to something faster within 2 years, then you'd be as well going for DAS (Direct AccesS). It's theoretically possible to organise a test yourself, but in practice you'll be paying a training school around £500 for a short training course and use of their bike (likely a 500cc) for use on the tests. That'll get you a full A license straight away.

Bike-wise, it's inner leg that matters, not total height. I've got stumpy pins and a 29" inner leg, and have trouble finding bikes to suit. You really do have to try them out, as you can't go by the quoted seat height, as the width is also an issue. The Bandit 650 has the same (or lower) claimed seat height than an ER-6 or CBF600, but I can't get my feet down on the fat Bandit, but I can on the latter two. Get thee to a bike shop.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[blito]

If you are looking at biking as a leisure hobby then get your gear, do your test and get yourself a nice bike... It'll cost you every spare penny you have buy you wont regret it..
If you are looking at biking as cheap commuting, get a moped
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2012 Zontes Monster

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[SwitchItUp]

Nice one Kerr, thanks for that decent and practical advice. I did a CBT over a decade ago but obviously that, along with old experience is in essence worthless now, hence it is good advice about having a look at all options. Did you go the CBT route or full test and what did you end up buying? [/quote]
iv only got as far as the cbt gaining a bit of bike experiance on that before i start taking lessons for full DAS.
well when i say bike experiance that would be well and good if i could get the heap of a bike iv got running
iv got an old af1 futura 125, more or less the older version of an RS 125, i wouldnt recomend if im honest, the RS is probably the fastest, best handling 125 out there, but not reliable enough to be worth it and at the end of the day a fast 125 aint fast.
you didnt say what age you were but im guessing with the years of driving cars your old enough for full test, courses for DAS are usually about £600ish gets you a full licence to ride anything you want, or do what codemonkey said, buy a cg/ybr pass your tests on that, then sell it for more or less than you paid for it, would be the cheaper option.
theres a few videos on youtube of people doing mod1 and 2s that are good for swotting up.[/quote]

I will take a look at the vids, cheers, yes the DAS sounds interesting, I am going to end up needing a forecourt lol, I already have a van, a car, a bus for sports gear and now after a bike lol. I love the idea of taking a bike somewhere like the highlands for those amazing big quiet roads and just enjoying some nice scenery, or even a bit of euro touring eventually, way off in the future, but need to think carefully about what route I would take if it went ahead. Right now it is only an idea, but an exciting one indeed!

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[kerr]

whichever route you go down, get your cbt and theory done pronto, cant take any tests til these are done, as you said craming would be a better option then the 5 day odd courses would benifit you.
good mod1 test here, slightly older version but more or less the same test. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bYOUWHrqDJg
mod 2 is basically an examiner telling you where to go, just like driving test.
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aprilia 125 Af1 Futura >> Suzuki gsxr 600 srad >> J1 zx6r >> cbr 600rr >> Speed Triple

[SwitchItUp]

Cheers Kerr, just looking at that now in fact!

What's the theory test like then? Never had to sit one, should be a barrel of laughs!

[kerr]

piece of piss, loads of websites do freebie mock tests, aslong as your highway code is fine written part is easy, hazard perception pointlesly easy.
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aprilia 125 Af1 Futura >> Suzuki gsxr 600 srad >> J1 zx6r >> cbr 600rr >> Speed Triple

[SwitchItUp]

Hi again, looked at that vid, great link, thanks for that! Looks easy enough but then that's always the way until you're in the driving seat!

Will get a theory booked up ASAP, should be a piece of piss, I keep my knowledge current and the test format looks simple. CBT I completed on first go last time around, although its a distant memory now LOL!

I don't know whether to be horrified or pleased at how easy it appears to be to go from zero to hero in a short time! As with anything of this calibre, moderation should really be key but a tempered, measured approach is the safest way.

Unless I have misunderstood, one could in theory go from no experience at all, to a full "big bike" licence, in a fairly short amount of time! Is this right?

[crackfinder]

[Rogerborg]

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[Bendy]

3 day courses are only stupid if you're stupid - ie. You think that cos you passed a test you now know it all.

If you treat it as having jumped through the required hoops but then allow yourself plenty of learning time before getting too carried away, it's fine. Riding a bike isn't hard (especially if you can drive), just give it some respect and yourself a bit of time to grasp the finer points.

[SwitchItUp]

Oh deffo, agreed! Learning time and putting in the hours is way forward!

Definitely interested in DAS. Anyone got any recommendations for centres or for intensive type courses? I work all over the place so can be fairly flexible on location. Prefer to work off recommended places/instructors than go in cold so to speak. For intensive learning, the top notch instructors can be the crucial factor in not only passing, but in gaining loads of hard won knowledge and tips!

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Given the option i would've probably done the DAS. Turned out to be a good thing i didn't. Few different types of bikes with varying degrees of power over a 7yr period. Loads of stuff including muddy stuff.

Reckon i'll be riding a sub 100bhp bike for abit longer. I Ride well when i'm confident, which comes from knowledge(and mighty shiny balls if you race the IOM TT...do i hear an Amen Brothers..and Clanger.)

Thing i keep in mind is how it felt when i went from a cg125 to a CB250. It felt fast(ish) it had power that you could feel..same for the Ducati..the next step in my case. Bazzing bike again..Like the CB250RS it is forgiving of heavy hands and both bikes reward a good rider....So i've heard.

I don't commute on the bike, but when i'm out riding i get that grin when i'm filtering past traffic..and unless you head for the distant hills you'll always be in traffic.

Words can not express how much joy biking has given me. It fucking rocks ass as they say.
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Diabolical homemade music Bandcamp and Soundcloud
Singer songwriter, Artist and allround good bloke Listen to Andrew Susan Johnston here
The Harry Turner Project

[SwitchItUp]

The extra power sounds good....as does the filtering!

Are you allowed to filter only when traffic is moving slightly though or can you filter when traffic is totally stopped ie gridlcked?