Can we get bad drivers off the road?

[Rogerborg]

There's some sad news in another thread about a bike vs car accident that resulted in the death of the pillion, an 18 year old girl.

The car driver was reportedly "elderly" with notoriously bad eyesight, and a few suggestions were made about mandatory re-tests for older drivers.

However, the press report claims that the driver is in his 50s, which is presumably younger than most folk would want to see mandatory re-tests begin.

I believe that the issue is with incompetent drivers, not just old ones. I mean not competent to be in charge of a motor vehicle, whether that's by dint of a medical condition, or temperament, or ability.

Is there anything that we can or should do about such drivers? Are the DSA / DVLA really set up to deal with them, without having to go through a court case first?

My sainted mother, for example, has already SMIDSY'd one pedboi and turned into some poor bloke on a roundabout - fortunately also in a cage. She is, to put it plainly, an awful driver, always has been. Dreadful obs, poor judgement, off in her own world most of the time. I can't imagine her passing a test under today's standard, but there's nothing to stop her going on until she does someone a serious injury that draws the attention of the State, or is unable to work the controls.

Is this right?

Is it right to rat her out to the DVLA?

If we won't rat out our own friends and relatives - the people we know to be a danger to others - why should we expect anyone else to man up and do it?

And is it even possible? Is there anything that the DVLA can or would do about a complaint about a driver? Given how easy it would be to rat out any random enemy-of-the-day that you want to stuff up, I mean.

Genuinely stumped on this one.
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[Kris]

Humans make mistakes. Perhaps they were a victim of the looming effect - who knows.

<shrug>
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[MarJay]

You can't expect drivers to be perfect. They are people after all. The only way to prevent all accidents is to have computer controlled vehicles. Even then I suspect we'll have the same level of accidents through technical faults.

You can't get all bad drivers off of the road. It was just bad luck that this driver happened to be at this particular junction at this particular time with that particular bike riding along the road.

Unfortunately we do have to accept that there is some risk in life. If we eliminated all risk we'd all have to live at home, never go out and wear only bubblewrap and cotton wool.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[dogbot]

Who decides who's skilled enough to be allowed to drive?

I'll tell you who it cannot be...

Us, the general public, road users.

The snitch culture is bad enough as it is, drivers swerving everywhere trying to take piss poor pics or video on their phones, what we don't need is them being encouraged to do more of this.

[J.M.]

Tricky subject I feel. I think we've all got friends that we believe should not be on the roads but - as you say - who is really going to report their family or friends for bad driving? It's unlikely to happen, and if it does it would be a low percentage of people doing it.

I believe that nowadays people believe it's a "given right" to get a drivers license at 17/18 and have a car - and I couldn't disagree more.
Heck, even the driver behind the wheel of my hazard perception DVD is a shocking driver.
Cars, and bikes, are essentially killing machines; and I think it's irresponsible of the government essentially letting anyone have a license. If you're not good enough to pass a test then tough, no license!

I read something while booking my theory test which shocked me and made me shake my head. If you can't read English then you may have an English translator help you during the test.
Hang on! There are sign posts in England that you have to read whilst driving. There are sign posts that just have a generic symbol and a text description of what's the hazard/danger is.
IMO, can't read English and you want an FULL English driving license - Learn English!

I've said before that I'd love to see something like mandatory re-sits come in for driving tests (like you have with HGVs), but it's just not feasible really is it.
Perhaps we could have a new (extra) point system on our licenses which effectively works like the current point system - but in this case you get X amount of points, re-sit your theory (and eye-sight) test, get X amount of points again within a certain amout of time and you must re-sit both your theory and practical tests. Then we could have our plodders giving points to bad drivers rather than just giving them a bollocking, rather than camping out in speed vans earning the government some extra wonga! Would also be declarable on insurance wouldn't it, if you've got no "bad driving points" you're perhaps a better driver, take an extra insurance discount. Would be lovely
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Moo.]

I do agree after a certain age people should be subjected to some king of training course to see if they are competant.. not a driving test, but maybe with an instructor to sit in the car and review their skill. If unimaginably aweful, they get their license revoked. But obviously it would have to be more lenient then car tests today.

Something does need to be done, just last week was with my dad in his HUGE ugly fiat multipla, a beast of a car. Like a whale on wheels. But as we were coming upto a roundabout on the inside lane, an old woman attempted to change lane.. into the spot our car was occupying. Cue an orchestral performance on the horn and swearing before the old bint realised there was a car there. She then decided to swerve sharply in the opposite direction
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A2 Passed 18/6/10

[G]

I'd love to - anyone I think is a bad road user should never be allowed to drive again.

Problem is, that a lot of people see that just the act of riding a bike makes you a bad road user.
By way of them not being a 'biker' they may well have more credibility to the general public.

I don't think testing from the DVLA will help that much really, at least not considering the current form of testing.

[0l0dom0l0]

I have to say though, I suspect there is a lot of risks your mum wouldn't take that a young driver would take who's just passed their test and has been approved by todays standards.

Currently it is down to the insurance companies that govern who drives on the road.

Perhaps they should make it that after every fault accident you have to take a test to check you're road worthiness. Would get a few of them off the road and re-trained.

Difficult one really.
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CBT Passed: 30/08/2009, Theory Passed: 31/08/2010, Mod 1 Passed: 6/9/2010, Mod 2 Passed: 13/09/2010. Restriction ended 13/09/2012.

Bikes: 2007 Derbi GPR 50, 1998 Yamaha Fazer 600 (written off), 2002 Yamaha Fazer 600, 1994 CBR 600F, 2003 Triumph Daytona 600, Kawasaki ZX6R J1.....Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6, 1998 Suzuki TL1000R and a Honda VFR 400 NC30.

[G]

Also, of course, often the people that dictate driving standards and acceptability have been in a brain-washing culture that leads them to believe their belief system is the one true path to enlightenment.

To get to be in considered an expert you must have already (sic) drunk the kool-aid.

[snikks]

It's a tricky thing. Any solution is going to be a pain in the ass for people who have every right to be on the roads, and nothing wrong with them. Therefore all of those people will sooner or later make a fuss about it if one was proposed (probably sooner).

Driver education and attitude play a big part - not many people stop after an accident or near miss and say to themselves "What could I have done to avoid that? what could I have changed about my driving?". The attitude tends to be one of "That idiot, came out of nowhere! What the hell was he thinking? nearly killed me!".

Societies softly softly "nobody is to blame for anything, God forbid anyone is forced to take responsibility for their actions" approach is probably partly to blame for that. I bet even now the elder couple are being told "it wasn't your fault, those motorcycles are dangerous things, don't blame yourselves".
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- CBT: 02/01/11 Theory: 26/04/11 Mod 1: 19/05/11 Mod 2: 19/08/11
- 2007 Honda XL125V Varadero (Sold), 1999 Yamaha FZS600 Fazer (Sold), 2001 CBR600F

[Andy_Pagin]

A Private Pilots Licence is only valid for five years, yet a car licence is practically for life. Would it really be so awful if drivers had to do a re-test say every twenty years? Apart from improving safely that would also weed out a good few illegally obtained licences and a few illegal immigrants as well.
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the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
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[Kris]

Last night they shut a few lanes of the M2 due to some incident in lane 1 involving a car and a lorry. As I neared the location of said accident, still a mile away I guess, traffic was slowing ahead. I was in lane 3 at the time and glanced in my mirrors to see a blue Toyota Rav4 with blue flashing lights about a foot from my rear tyre at 70mph. I had mirror checked not ten seconds before so I can only presume he steamed up behind and decided to tailgate until I moved over.

That's a so-called 'professional driver'.
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NSR125RR - ZXR750H1 - ZX9R E1 - GSF600S - GSF600SK3 - VFR400-NC30 - SV1000N - ST1100-R - CBR900RR-R - GSF1200SK5 - GSF600SK1 - VFR1200FA - GSXR1000K2 - ZZR1400 D8F
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[UnknownStuntm...]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

Mandatory driving tests every few years. Let's pick a number, say, 5. So you have to take a test every 5 years to keep your driving licence valid. No licence, caught driving = massive fine. And I mean MASSIVE.

I don't think a full test would be appropriate (like the one you pass to get the category on your licence), maybe a shorter test involving a hazard perception section, a highway code section and so on, and a short practical examination either on or off road. 15 mins?

Sure, it'll cost a shed load of money, which the government don't have. So charge for it. It's a privilege after all, not a right. Not a massive amount, mind, something like £20, to cover the examiners' time.

[Germ]

Someone on here or Bandit forum posted a PDF document which was the report into why bikers make up 2% of road users yet account for 21% of road fatalities...it's a good read and proves that most cagers suffer what the report calls "Look but don't see" problems.

They glance where they should but don't SEE what's there.It did some studies where they tested car only licence holders and bike and car licence holders and surprise,surprise the dual licence holders spotted motorcyclists far more often than the others.
They then gave them a try on a bike simulator and retested them and their perception of motorcyclists had gone way,way up.

I know it's not feasible to make everyone who wants to drive a car spend 6 months riding a motorbike but I'd bet my bollocks that SMIDSY's with bikes as victims would go way down.

[stinkwheel]

I've said this before but not for a while.

1) Take third party motor insurance into the state sector, you get insurance with your road tax and are issued with a licence plate when you buy it. Any car with a valid licence plate is insured and the design changes on an annual basis.

2) Everyone pays the basic rate of insurance but there is a discount system. You can earn points by undertaking further training and assesment along with a no-claims componant. Bonus points are removed pro-rata for traffic offences and claims.

This shouldn't be unachievable, if you keep your licence clean for say 5 years and pass an assessment drive at that sort of frequency, you get maximum discount.

3) The commercial sector can look after the fire, theft and comprehensive cmponants of the insurance.

Leading to a situation where uninsured drivers are instantly noticeable. You get pranged, you know they are covered.

Also leading to a situation where the driver is rewarded for good driving, further training and asessment. It's not mandatory but if you want to keep your insurance costs down, you keep your training and assessment up.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[killa]

[_Troy_]

I agree that a type of re-test would be excellent. Doesn't need to be a full assessment, but something to show you are still capable.

I have seen in other parts of the world, insurance companies have made it mandatory for drivers to mount a camera on their vehicle.

I'm sure that having a camera on every car/van/bike etc would be a great way of getting the really bad drivers off of the road. Would save us all documenting it and reporting them, as we could simply give immediate evidence which is completely full proof.

Although, this may not do anything. All too many police shows show a drunk driver being pulled over, knicked and charged. Then at the end of the show it says - "Tony the fat drunk got a £100 fine and 6 penalty points." So he is allowed back on the road then? Excellent.

I genuinely believe there is nothing we can do. No matter what rules are enforced, the bad drivers will always be there to give us definitive eye contact, and then still pull out on us.
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Current bike: ZX6R J1
Previous bikes: CLR 125 | GS500 | ZX6R G2 | SV650

[Rogerborg]

[Paulington]

[Xdwardo500]

I think frequent road-user training/retraining is the only way to keep the standard of driving to what it should be. And even then, I'd still regard every other road-user as an idiot who wants to knock me off my bike.
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Lincoln, England
2011 Vespa GTS 300 Super
Riding Since 2011

[G]

[Chalky.]

So ban women then?

[stinkwheel]

[doggone]

Going back to the original implied idea that older drivers should be tested more/forced off the road - because they are supposed to be somehow incompetent - looking at the stats doesn't bear this out does it.
The main age groups having accidents are much younger.
They may have slower reactions and have less than perfect eyesight but this is largely countered by more experience and less aggressive driving styles.

[Germ]