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| slideaway77 |
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slideaway77
Derestricted Danger
Joined: 10 May 2011
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 Posted: 22:51 - 31 Aug 2011  Post subject: Are you worried about the new EU regulations? |
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I have just spend near enough a grand on getting through the bike tests to module 2 test which I failed the other day. I found out that the EU now wants to bring in a load of punitive laws to stop bikers riding bikes over 7 years old in addition to several other laws including a non-tampering directive. They also want us to wear full hi-vis outfits at all times!
I would urge everyone on here to complain bitterly to your local MP and sign the petition going about on the general chat forum.
F*cking EU!  |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| J.M. |
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J.M.
World Chat Champion
Joined: 27 Mar 2011
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| Posted: 23:27 - 31 Aug 2011 Post subject: |
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If this ever comes into the UK, I'd love to get bikers everywhere just stopping on motorways throughout Britain. I mean hard-shoulder to the 3rd lane, bringing traffic to a standstill - only to let vehicles such as ambulances and fire engines passed.
The "protest rides" I was hearing about do nothing in my opinion. Just a group of bikers doing 40 down the motorway.
We need to say, "you know what, stop f*cking with people for a change and let us be us. We're not doing anything wrong, deal with it".
The best analogy I can think of: Best way to get a bully to stop picking on you at school, do you write him a letter, or do you fight back and show him you're not a push over.
I guess I'm rating and sounding like a civil-war enthusiast at the moment, but what can you do, I'm in a bad mood 
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900 |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 00:23 - 01 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Sorry to tell you this, but this stuff isn't news. Most of the 'current threats' being threatened by Brussels have been being bandied about in different guises since I was a nipper, and I'm no newbie!
Rant as much as you like; sign as many petitions as you care, you'll just be another lonely angry voice lost in the wilderness.
If you want your voice to 'count', put your money where your mouth is and join MAG or the BMF..
These are the blokes that have been fighting the beurocrats probably longer than you have been alive....
They win some, loose some, but mainly merely change the angle of attack, BUT they DO achieve stuff; and IF you are really bothered, pay your subs and make the voluntary contribution to the campaign fund...
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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Joined: 18 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 08:44 - 01 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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MAG > BMF
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| LordShaftesbu... |
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LordShaftesbu...
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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Posted: 12:19 - 01 Sep 2011  Post subject: |
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| Doug97 wrote: | You can't join BMF any more. Believe me, I've tried. They're not taking new memberships. |
Webby is still advertising subscription rates?
(Have you checked the 'Back-Door'; should still be well and truly open to gain mebership through affiliated club; any of the many local Motorcycle Rally Clubs, or marque clubs etc.)
Depends what you want out of a club really. Snowie, read this last night and started interogating me on the topic.
BMF = Concervative, Sensible 'Grown up', Club for descerning motorcycle 'Enthusiasts', interested in the motorcycles, and 'touring'. Actually in their publicity blurb they were formed in 1960's to represent the 'respectable' face of motorcycling, in the face of leather clad 'rockers' getting in the papers for beating up parka-wearing Mods on windswept beach resorts.....
When I was a kid; I was told, unless you were over 40, rode a big BMW, with panniers for your pipe & slippers, they wouldn't let you join...
Not so these days; but club IS still the more concervative.
MAG = More Militant than the BMF, it was founded, 'officially' essentially as a 'single issue action group' to opose the compulsary Crash Helmet law in the early '70's..... mostly by leather clad 'Rockers', the BMF did not want to be associated with....
When I was a kid, again, they were derided as being a bunch of Hells Angels Wannabees, making trouble, getting themselves arrested, as often as not NOT for not wearing a crash hat, (was actually a non endorsable offence for a long while) but not paying fines for not wearing crash hats.....
Not so these days; club is still more politically motivated, but the two have converged a lot in recent years.
A Child of the revolution, born to a pair of hippy students, not long after the Students-Revolt, Paris '69.. I grew up with a lot of the 'revolutionary spirit' that not only COULD we change the world... it was also almost a moral obligation to TRY...... riding in organised competition for a number of years before I was old enough to ride on the road... I 'got involved'.... and was much more rapt by MAG's more 'hands on' approach to actual campagning. Over the years, I've supported mag, and 'Done my Bit', 'hands on', time and time over....
For me I am NOT a pessimist, merely a dissolusioned optimist, and capaigning against TUV style anti-tramper legislation; that ultimately gave us the short lived BSI Exhaust stamping law; which was actually over turned by one of Brussels rulings, more than anything MAG or the BMF did; Compulsary Hi-Vis; compulsary Leg Protectors, 1992 RTA ammendments, and gawd knows what at the roots level like local parking schemes, or stuff that effected off road sport or green-laning, via evem ore speciist interest or gampaign groups... I am frankly rather tired of it all..... and the workds of Elvis Costello, resonate "An Angry Young man; you can only shout so long before people stop listening, and you realise you are merely making yourself hoarse".....
And it is NOT that it is a loosing battle, its the fact that this shit just keeps getting re-invented; THAT I would find easy enough to deal with... you just assume battle drill and go once more into the breach.... BUT with motorcycling now essentially a leisure persuit, with a much higher 'turn over' of people whose enthusiasm is, relatively speaking fairly short, actively involved with bikes for perhaps only five years..... it'd dealing with all the 'raw recruits', and expensing even MORE effort trying to get the raw recuruits pointing thier guns in the direction and not shooting 'us' up the arse in the process.....
POTTED ANSWER:-
IF you want to go do some rallies, visit places, maybe get a bit of discount on your insurance; but appease your conscience you are 'supporting the cause'... Join the BMF or an affiliate.
If you want to vent some real angst, throw yourself in, get 'hands on' and feel like you are REALLY doing your bit to 'make a difference'..... Join MAG.....
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| LordShaftesbu... |
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LordShaftesbu...
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Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 14:20 - 01 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Doug97 wrote: | Seriously, if they aren't even organised enough to sign someone up who actually wanted to what hope do they have of managing anything else? |
LOL!
Yeah... sounds about right...... BUT what you have to remember is that BMF, MAG, the TRF, The Villiers Owners Club, even the grandaddy ACU are NOT comercial, profit making organisations.......
We're used to slick profit making businesses eager to get our cash, and even very slick one-man bands operating out of thier back-bedroom, flogging stuff on e-bay, who show a level of 'professionalism' we have come to expect, these days....
Non-Profit organisations, CAN sometimes be quite slick, look at The National Trust, or World Wide Fund for Nature or whatever they are calling themselves this month...... many of them, and a lot of the Cancer Charities and the like.... are so 'profesional', and have so many full time employees, doing it almost solely for the money, to help them BE that good, and help them maintain the 'public profile' and generate the revinue to do it's synical......
BUT, when we get down to the less 'mainstream' and lower key organisations, amaller interest groups and clubs..... you have to accept that many of them are pretty dissorganised, working on Blue-Peter principles..... with old toilet rolls and PVA glue......
MAG.... has come a long, long way in the last twenty years or so. There is a reason they are more 'slick', and that is that they HAD to try and build a professional, presentable and soicially acceptable 'image'.... to get away from that leather clad trouble maker image they had.
BUT; look behind the vaneer.... thier regional representation is patchy, and thier NON campagning activity pretty minimal. They are 'on the ball', but they aren't as well established, have as much coverage, or do 'so much'..... GREAT at what they do.... and if you want to get 'hands on' really get stuck in and feel like you are making a difference, then they are 'for you'.
BMF... older, better established, wider coverage, far more active, especially through affiliate clubs; far more 'catholic' in what they do, but the legacy of always being 'the respectable one'... they haven't REALLY had to haul themselves out of the 1950's Boy-Scout mentality of how to do things......
BOTH are very effective, and BOTH sit round the table on the consultative committees, lobbying groups and industry think-tanks.... and these days, they CAN.... work-together, and DO actually offer quite a formidable 'partnership'......
MAG organise the 'mob' to make some noise outside, and rattle windows, and shout down the man in the suit; BMF bod sitting thier right & propper, listening calmly and patiently, until logger heads, then taking over where MAG left off, quietly and 'reasonably' talking around the head-on disputes, but basically pushing the Biker-Cause foreward..... it's stealth & agression, and together they are a formidable weapon, working in convcert....
I dont deminish either organisation for thier 'aproach'.. they work, and both do good.... just depends on which aporoach best suits you... Do you want to be a gung-ho marine, storming the beaches wit a machine gun, or a comando, sneaking into the supply depot and placing time charges?
And yes.... they may lack a bit of proffessionalism here and there, either one..... but FUCK...... we PAY BILLIONS to HM Government each year, and look at how utterly fucking disorganised and unhelpful THEY are!
HM Inland revinue, getting our money of us is the only bit even CLOSE to effective..... and that's only becouse they have draconian feudal authority behind them!
Rather idonic that they are SO good at getting our money we have to find people who struggle to take the money we OFFER off us to go fight the fuckers we have already paid, without wanting to!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| KingKong |
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KingKong
Crazy Courier
Joined: 03 Sep 2011
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| Posted: 15:04 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Our voice and protests WILL make a difference IF expressed CORRECTLY.
A few demonstrations here and there; a slow ride on blocking roads a few days here and there will make no difference whatsoever, because the polytricians (politicians) know that this reflex protest will be over shortly and they can resume pushing through another oppressive, freedom restricting good for nothing but profit bill.
Violent protests simply vindicate hard-wing politicians, who will inevitably look down their noses at the violence and continue with their agenda.
To be heard in one voice, to make that effective difference is to endorse CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE en masse! If a rule or law was passed that no motorcycles are allowed on the motorway; or all riders must wear hi-vis etc we could successfully oppose it by not abiding by them. If the many thousands to millions of riders in the country were to protest by not following these smothering nanny-state laws, there could be nothing the government could do if organized en masse  History has demonstrated this countless times.
The government is a handful of crooks vs the masses of its subjects - we the people. In numbers, we are far more powerful - we just need to be assertive and not so laissez-faires (sp?) about it.
Civil disobedience is the most effective form of 'revolution' in this day and age, so long as it is for a worthy cause, and motorcycle riders' freedom is a very worthy cause! |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 15:57 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| KingKong wrote: | Civil Dissobedience |
Or in sshort; Mob-Rule, Anarchy..... and ultimately revolution, substituting one corrupt and inefficeint government for another....
More moderate people call that 'Election Time'
Doesn't change a thing, but does let us feel we have some influence on it.....
Meanwhile, civil dissobedience, mob-rule and anarchy does not effect change, it merely makes ALL Laws meaningless and unenforceable, regardless of thier merit or degree of pettiness.
Mobile Phone laws are petti, and unenforceable, and commonly disregardfed by civil dissobedience...
People still get prosecutred under them though...... its merely random and 'luck' whether you are singled out.... the laws remain in force, and the few corrupt officials we outnumber en mass, can still use their self emposed powers and 'apointed bully-boys' to outnumber a few at a time, and divide and rule.
CHANGE comes from WITHIN the system, and concerted lobbying, by well in formed, authorative and erudite people WITHIN the process, with credability DO make a difference..... and MAG and BMF put those people there....
MAG learned that one the hard way, advocating 'Civil Dissobedience', encouraging people to NOT wear a crash helmet, and organising lid-less protest rides.....
Most were nailed NOT for not wearing a hat, but for not paying the fines for not wearing a hat, and the laws, after nearly forty years are STILL with us.......
If you want to learn from the lessons of history, ponder that one......
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: 16:17 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| KingKong wrote: | To be heard in one voice, to make that effective difference is to endorse CIVIL DISOBEDIENCE en masse! If a rule or law was passed that no motorcycles are allowed on the motorway; or all riders must wear hi-vis etc we could successfully oppose it by not abiding by them. If the many thousands to millions of riders in the country were to protest by not following these smothering nanny-state laws, there could be nothing the government could do if organized en masse History has demonstrated this countless times. |
For example? In the UK, I mean. Where the offensive legislation has actually been repealed.
Poll Tax.
Sunday trading.
...?
Those were mass disobedience by the general populace. Motorcyclists are a niche group. Motorcyclists willing to risk prosecution are a niche among a niche.
I'm agreeing with you, by the way, I just don't think we have the numbers to make it work.
That said, I've just ordered my "DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING" vest for the September "protest" run. 
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| KingKong |
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KingKong
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| KingKong |
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KingKong
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:56 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| KingKong wrote: | | Rogerborg wrote: | That said, I've just ordered my "DOWN WITH THIS SORT OF THING" vest for the September "protest" run. |
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I also ordered a "CAREFUL NOW" one for daily use. 
Jesus wept, I just checked out the BMF Scotland region, and it was last updated in 2009. The © notice is 2006.
Based on that, MAG is the only game in town.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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| Posted: 21:11 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: |
Jesus wept, I just checked out the BMF Scotland region, and it was last updated in 2009. The © notice is 2006.
Based on that, MAG is the only game in town. |
If they are 'IN' your town....
East Midlands, (as many other districts) Snowie just informed me doesn't have a section, just an advert "Rep Wanted"..... and a snag line to try and entice some-one into the role
She Tried.... she REALLY tried to sell me on it.... but... nope... not for me, NOT any more.....
Be right up your street though Rog......and that's a serious suggestion; you are motivated; politicised; pasionate; clued up, eductaed and erudite, you fit the role very very well, and you could get a lot out of it; if they dont have a section up your way.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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| Posted: 21:44 - 03 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Well, I already have the requisite manbeard. Unfortunately, I have a strict policy against joining any club that would have me as a member. 
I'll hook up with the MAGites round my gaff in the September Rage Ride and we'll see how it goes.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| LordShaftesbu... |
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LordShaftesbu...
World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Sep 2008
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| Posted: 09:55 - 04 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | [I also ordered a "CAREFUL NOW" one for daily use.
Jesus wept, I just checked out the BMF Scotland region, and it was last updated in 2009. The © notice is 2006.
Based on that, MAG is the only game in town. |
Waaah no fair, they're changing their webmaster you know! Give them a chance, you can't expect them to maintain their old website while they're waiting on the new one ... oh wait ... yes you can. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 15 years, 9 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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