Want to rebuild a bike, where to start

[teuma86]

Hi all

I want to rebuild / restore an old bike for 2 reasons
1) I want to learn about bike mechanics, so I can look after my own bike better, what better way to learn than to build a bike

2) I think it would be fun and a nice little project

Any advice / tips before I start this. (I dont even have the tools at the moment)

Any suggestions on a good bike to start with.

Basically I want to learn to do things on my bike but I dont want to learn with my bike, if I cock up on an old bike, no big deal, if I cock up on my new bike, then I have no bike (or worse, can kill myself)

[biker58]

This is something i will be attempting when i have time for pretty much the same reasons.

The way i will go about it is buy the cheapest non runner i can possibly find (but 1 that hasn't been burnt to the ground) and one that are fairly common to find on the roads so getting parts isnt too much of a nightmare and just start playing with it following a Haynes manual and asking friends for advice.

As it will be such a cheap bike it wont matter too much if something breaks providing you can get replacement parts.

Enjoy!
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1995 Suzuki GSX600F rider

[teuma86]

I was partially asking for which bike cos

A: cost of parts. Pointless spending £300 on the bike when the parts i need to replace it are double / triple the price than other bikes.

B. one that can be done easily. For example I know Ducatis are more specialised than Kawasakis on Repairs / Maintenance.

Also would be nice to know what to look for when buying a reck.

I would assume as long as the engine has not blown and the frame is not mangled I can pretty much restore it without major costs. But i dont know, so please correct me if i am wrong

[Kickstart]

Hi

With spares prices and simplicity, a basic Ducati is probably cheaper and easier to do than any sporty Kawasaki.

While £300 might not break the bank, consider some costs that you will likely have to splash out. Pair of tyres, front brake disks and a chain and sprocket kit could easily come close to £500.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[teuma86]

Plus the tools for the job.

I have a theory (like every crazy man)

Buy a bike - approx £400
Extra parts (possibly new tyres, new handlebar, new exhaust, oil, chain ect ect) £500

Sell the bike for £3,000
Pocket just over 2k

But then I thought that was a little far fetched and realistically thinking, I would be lucky to make a profit at all if I sold the bike after.


But I would learn soo much and have soo much fun so worth it.

[Kickstart]

Hi

No chance.

For example I have an FZR600 here which I want to sort out to sell. As it stands (no MOT) I might get £200 for it. For an MOT it needs tyres and some fiddling around. Tyres, MOT, brake fluid, couple of suspension bushes and the like will add up to about £200 and then I can get about £500 for it so maybe a £100 "profit". However it might need some brake disks and pads for the MOT, and wheel bearings, maybe the seat recovering. Even doing the seat myself that will turn it into a ~£100 loss.

To get much more than £500 it would need to be sorted out cosmetically. So a respray which would cost £500 upwards for something that wouldn't reduce the value even further.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[N cee thirty]

i'm doing up a little rxs at the moment,it helps if you have some money,of which i don't

when i sell it after winter,i might make a few quid profit,but meh i'll have had my fun and be able to put the money towards another project for next summer ;D
____________________
'00 Aprilia RS50 > '92 Honda CG > '99 Yamaha Fazer > '91 Yamaha RXS > '79 Suzuki X5 > 01' Honda Cg > 07' Honda Cg > 82' Kawasaki Z200 > suzuki gsxr 400 gk73a > honda vfr 400 NC30 Mod 2 Passed 09/06/2011

Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[teuma86]

as my last line said, I would be lucky to make a profit but I would have had fun and learnt more about bikes.

I am not doing it for money. Simply for a bit of fun and learning experience.

I am still none the wiser on what bike to start with tho??

[Kickstart]

Hi

I would say something with a load of spares available for sensible money and which is fairly common.

Trouble is anything that will have a decent resale value after being sorted out probably has a decent resale value in needs sorting condition.

The Ducati 600 Monsters are probably reasonably priced and simple with a fair few spare. Steel frames CBR600. Not sure what spares prices are like these days but possibly a smaller Moto Guzzi. Oil cooled GSXR750 (or a Bandit).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Frost]

[teuma86]

[Kickstart]

Hi

Easy enough to buy a cheapy and rebuild it at a loss. You can possibly find the remains of an old 4 stroke 125 (CG125, CB125, etc) in need of work for not much. Not the end of the world if you make a mess and just sell it on for spares.

Just watch out for major expenses (tyres, or with an old ohc Honda, the head and cam becoming a 1 piece unit).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Frost]

[Teflon-Mike]

Right, well you are thinking along the right lines on the ecconomics.
Possible to make profit on fixing bikes up, with the right know how, and a little luck. BUT you have to be rather ruthless in what you do, and know what NOT to tackle......

As an excersize in learning mechanics, NOT doing stuff dont teach you anything.....

SO, you are doing it for yourself. Which means whatever it costs you, you have to get back out either from the job of doing it, and or the bike you'll have at the end of it.

So starting at the end; BIG question, WHAT would you like to have in your garage when you have finished it?

And think hard on that one. What would you do with it? What COULD you do with it? What couldn't you do with it?

There are people that will spend a fortune restoring an old Vincent, they will NEVER ride...... makes for a very expensive ornament, BUT thier money..... if they value it highly enough.....

Then there are people who will get an old crash damaged Thender-cat, rip off the fairings, strip it to the frame, get everything powder coated and anodised, and make a fairly tasty 'street-fighter' from it, becouse that is what they WANT, and doing the work is the best way to get it, and get it the way they want it.

Others will spend a silly amount of money restoring something like an old Jawa CZ350 two stroke..... bike that was horrible when new, horribler when old, and well, just pretty horrible! BUT they find one rotting in a hedge, pull it out and decide to do it, becouse it's 'cheap'... yes, becouse its shit, and past it! But undettured they scrounge the autojumbles, buy seals and stuff, and after a lot of hard work, probably spending more than what would buy them a decent CBR600 in road worthy fettle.... manage to get it sccrubbed up and tightened up enough to pass an MOT, and chugg happily down the road on it, leaving blue fugs of pre-mix fumes, convinced that THEIR bike, has 'Charecter'......

And between all points lie all sorts of outcomes, and self delusions, and 'reasoning' to justify why it was all a 'good idea'.

Whats yours?

No point, getting a bike to 'project' that has no other purpose at the end.

Next; mechanically; simpolicity is helpful. Single cylinders, twin shock suspension, right-way-up forks, are all things that give a first time project more chance of success... but more mundane it is, less likely it will be all THAT exiting at the end.

DIRT BIKES.... always make good projects; tending to be simpler and lighter, and with a little more scope for using patern parts, like mudguards and handlebars and stuff, and they frequently get thrashed into cosmetically very poor 'project worthy' conditions fairly readily, without MAJOR works needed to them.

Done, they can make useful local commuters, green-lane fun bikes, or pressed into competition.

Twin-Shock Trails, is probably the more accessible form of classic bike sport, where plenty of folk are building and bashing old bikes about; and the machines, twin-shock, air-cooled two strokes, about as simple, and as minimal as bikes get and very viable resto-projects. IF takes your fancy and you can get 'use' out the bike after, tackling pocket trials sections on it!

Not so great for green-laning or popping to the shops!

Race Bikes; tend to be bit more demanding as a project; but again, ready use for it at the end. And check the clubs, see what classes there are, and what takes your fancy. Not 'up' on whats going on in the paddock these days, but used to be pretty healthy 'budget-clubman' scene going on with things like LC racing and the MZ challenge.... which building to 'regs' gives you teh chance to build something farily competative, where your money and effort can have god effect....

Road Bikes: As said; depsnds what you want at the end; Show Custom; Exotic Classic; or a fun bike.

Look at the number of people on her that have old two stroke commuters knocking about; that kind of thing can make a 'fun' project, and they dont take up much space behind the freezer when they are doing nothing.

Few that would check a lot of boxes I have experience of;

Moto Morini 3 & 1/2... neat little Italian V-Twin, push-rod four stroke. Quite a quick and very sweet handling 'Cafe Racer' in its day; nice 'quirky' little exotic that works as an 'every day' classic that could earn its living as more than Sunny Sunday play thing. But well supported (are Wee-Vee still going? Do a google!), and simple mechanics and not TOO much that can get too expensive.

Ducati Bevel Single Street Scrambler. They did a sports bike & proddy racer version too; all expensibve and THESE days bludy hard to get all the bits for. BUT not as daunting as a twin, and a lot cheaper than a bevel drive V.

Moto-Guzzi C35/V50/V75... well any of them really. Seem lots of people have a crack at these bikes, and dont know how to put them back together. That or they just give themselves a hernia trying to lift the gearbox out! Push-Rod twin... shaft drive, well supported, not hugely exiting or all THAT different, but again, bike that can earn its keep after being done, and not demand TOO much in the doing of.

Triumph Bonaville. Meriden ones. Horrible damn things. And every Dick and his Dog will tell you something different about them. But again, basic mechanics, well supported. Prices are volatile though, and its easy to make expensive mistakes. BUT unlike some jap bikes, you can make them and still get working bike at the end of it.

Honda Super Dreams - only apply if you are madder than a box of frogs! Or want to be! CX500.... mad as a box of frogs licking red-cap mushrooms!

Old Air-Cooled Two Stroke Twins; the legend and lore makes them FAR too apealing; prices of roadable examples more so. They also can be very infuriating in build, and stuff that can for all simplicity, give seriouse expense, and at the end, they can prove dissapointing to ride.

Jap 'Fours'... more cylinders, more hassle & expense. Look at the price of pistons, they tend to be around £25 each no matter how big they are, or what they are for. Each one has at least two pistoin rings that are fiddly to put on, and clumsy unpracticed fingers can easily crack. Take heed, even the simplest of air cooled fours have a LOT more risk associated with them. It is NOT nice when you are on to your third set of piston tings and have JUST got full sets onto three of them, and you crack your last top ring on the forth slug!

Air-Cooled fours, inline UJM, can be not TOO demanding to work on once open. Old SOHC Hondas were very 'obviouse' in layout, though some fiddly bits remain; Kwak motors were a bit more sophisticated but built like a brick shit house. Lots to choose from, but again, you need to know your stuff. Headline bikes like the Honda CB750-'Four' or Kawasaki Z1 are worth seriouse money when done properly; Kwak Z650's have poor support and are worth bugger all; and there are many variants of different models, and lots of 'experts'.... all with different advice and opinions.

So, lots and lots to think about....... and getting a decent project base is a great start.

ONE bit of advice, DO NOT worry too much about the cost of the project base you buy.

Ultiomately hard to spend more than a grand for something as a project base, you can even, just about get a Honda CB750 K0 'Four' 'Project-Bike' for that kind of money...... but most are on offer in the 0 - £400 bracket. VERY easy there to pick the WRONG bike.

Cost of project base, often not THAT significant in the overall project cost; My Yamaha Enduro currently NOT on the stand, cost me £250 to buy, complete, just cost half that again, to get major bits plastic coated..... Spend SO FAR, and all I have done is take the ruiddy thing to bits, is nudging £500 and its looking like overall project cost could easily nudge the grand, and that's without doing lots of check-book restore by replacement, having wheels rebuilt, or buying nice shiney new exhausts or anything.

You can buy a Donor for £250 or for £500 and the £250 'saving' buying further down the market will often prove a falce ecconomy; its peanuts in the overall costs, and can make a hell of a lot more work, hassle and incurr greater expense than you save.

Better to buy a bike that is a runner, and as close to complete and original as you can get at the beginning, best chance you have of tearing it down, seeing how it goes together, deciding what bits can be saved, what cant, what needs replacing and doing, and THEN putting it all back together and having something 'good' at the end.

If bits are missing; you wont have something to compare to to find out what they ought to look like, so when a part you turn up on e-bay arrives and doesn't fit.... is it the parts wrong, or is it something you haven't put together right!

THAT is where you start finding hassle and expense turning it from a nice project into a nightmare project.

Lastly..... Space and Time...... You need an AWFUL lot more of BOTH commodities than you will ever imagine.... and MONEY, you will always need more of that than you expect or hope!

Money is a great tool for solving problems, though......

Space and time? Well, what you start thinking should take you a month, will take three, and where you think you can work in an 8'x10' shed... you'll find that fiulled, parts strewn round half the garden and people complaining about muguards in the bath-room and engine cases in the oven..... it WILL expand to fill whatever space is available, AND MORE!

Staka-boxes, freeza bags, and indelible felt tips are your best freind, along with a digital camera.

Photograph everything, as you go along, so you have record of how it all fitted together and how it ought to go back together, and you have something to look back on at the end of it all!

TAG and BAG all your bits, and keep them organised and tidy, but CLEAN every-bludy thing as you take it off, so you can see what it looks like, and can assess its condition, and you dont spread more much around.

Also - KEEP the bits you KNOW you will throw away, until you have the replacement part, AND it is fitted! Even if the bit in question is rusty, mangled or chopped to bits! Number of times I have ordered seals or bearings and things, chucked old ones away, then discovered a problem with part when it arrives and been scratching my head to figure out what's wrong..... others where i have kept old part... been able to go back, have a look, and realise lip form is different, or its a difference width, or replacement bearing is semi sealed, etc etc etc..... and sort it out, a lot more easily.

Lastly.... have fun!

No point in doing it if you dont enjoy it!
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Kickstart]

[Bezzer]

[DrDonnyBrago]

A project bike will almost certainly cost you more than you will sell it for.

Best bet would just be to service your own bike for a while. Save money and learn basic mechanics - walk before you run and all that. Go around your bike with a torque wrench and a load of stainless fasteners and replace any that are beginning to look a tad orange, do things like flush and replace the coolant, change the oil, change the brake fluid, grease your levers and pivots, oil cables etc etc etc.

All are low risk procedures that you can do on your newish bike to keep it in good nick.

[finpos]

[teuma86]

[volvodai]

I found a japanese air cooled two stroke scooter in a garden one day and asked the housekeeper could i have it, engine was seized and mainly everything else also.
rebuilt it just to see if i could it was nice and simple to be honest but didnt cost the earth to do but did get enjoyment of making it work again.
have gone on to do a few different projects rebuilding jap 4 cyl four stroke but i would consider this a bit ambitius to start off with

[Nexus Icon]

What about something like this?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/HONDA-XL250-CLASSIC-TWIN-SHOCK-TRAIL-BIKE-FULL-MOT-/160645620143?pt=UK_Motorcycles&hash=item256739a1af
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Greetings from Shitsville!

[waffles]

Best advice I could give having been caught out by my xr rebuild project - do your research before you buy. If I had done that I would have found out about issues regarding the rear spindle and saved myself a fuckton of cash. Im over the moon with my xr but it was a bit of a money pit.

Find out how much consumables are before you buy.

Get your tools together.

Get a manual for the bike you want to buy, download a PDF file if needs be and also get a Haynes/Clymer type book too.

Take pictures before you pull the thing apart and label the smaller parts so you know where they go. Nothing worse than bolting something back into place and finding you have a bit left over. If it came off the bike it should go back on!

Make a plan of what you are going to do first, then what your next job is etc etc. That way if you want to get something plated or painted you can get it all done in one go rather than many smaller lots.
____________________
Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[stinkwheel]

My number one piece of advice is to get the engine running before you spend time, effort and money on anything cosmetic.

I see SO many people doing up a bike and the first thing they do is strip it down and get the frame powder coated. Total waste of time if it's not a runner. Also, you'll land up taking the engine in and out and mark your newly done frame.

If it's in boxes when you get it, it'll land up staying in boxes, only buy a complete bike, even if it's a non-runner.

95% complete means 5% missing. I can garauntee that 5% is either unobtainable or unaffordable or it would not be being sold with those bits missing.

Can I suggest doing up an Enfield/Royal Enfield Bullet?

They are cheap. They are unbelievably simple. Spares are both cheap and readily available. There is nothing on them the home mechanic can't do. You can still get new (as in new, not new old stock) parts for even really old ones but most of the modern parts are interchangeable anyway.

This does of course depend on if you want a pre-unit motorbike that does 60mph which is what you'll have at the end of the day unless you spend more putting some of the readily available fast bits on it (which kind of snowballs, I've seen it happen, you start off with a £500 non-running basket case and £4,000 later land up with a 120mph cafe racer).
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[leonski]

well i got ybr 125 running with a front end smash i was nt sure at first if i could do it as im a compete novice but with help and tips from other bcf users i downloaded the ybr manual from here look to see what had to do
it looked kinda compacted but you know it was so easy in the end
ybr 125 running cost : £100
front forks ebay : £60
light holder ebay : £20
instrument holder or panel :£20 best deal ever
handle bars : £13 Yamaha
front indicators : £7 Amazon lol
new battery : £15 delivered ebay plus tax and mot all on the road for 300 notes and ive already had some one offer me £700 for it lol

tbh i was not sure but you ll never know if u dont try
____________________
there is nothing like the smell of 2stroke in the morning
current beasts..lol de-restricted ludix classic 50 fastest ped ive ever ridden
yamaha ybr 125 working progress .......

[teuma86]

As I said, I am not in it for a profit.

There is no time scale so money is not a major issue.
As in, if I have to save money for a couple of months to buy the right exhaust then I will.

But people have made good points on here about what I want at the end.

When I went round my uncles, i mentioned my friend saying it was bumpy on the bike, with the tools inside the bike, he showed me how to adjust the suspension. Piece of piss.

If I near enough take a bike apart, I should know all this. I should have more confidence in doing things on my bike (The one I use on the road) and I should be able to identify possible issues and what they are before it becomes too late.

But as someone mentioned, I dont want to buy a bike, spend say 1k in total doing it up (including purchase price)
then not want to ride it so end up selling it for £700.

I would prefer to buy an old Norton or Enfield. Do it up. then I take it to these classic bike shows and have people looking at my bike.

I did think about getting a classic bike I can get a nice paint job on it. but then it would ruin the classic look. So I was thinking plenty of chrome bits to clean and show off.