Low speed cornering (junctions etc)

[andy_uk]

Hi
I'm happily learning away in preparation for doing the DAS next year.
most things I'm pretty happy with apart from low speed cornering e.g. turning at traffic lights etc from a standstill.
I just can't seem to lean it at all and end up going at a slow walking pace... any faster and I just go wide (not a good plan!)
When I perform the same manoeuvre while already moving then I'm fine.
I think it's just nerves but was just wondering if anyone else had the same problem.

edited to add...
The bike (Aprilia Classic 125) is a heavy beastie (146KG / 23st)
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...

[Alex_B]

Just done CBT and got a bike, so I'm in a very noob like state my self.

I have a similar problem but it's getting better.

What you have to do is look where you want the bike to go as opposed to looking at the corner (if that makes sense)

Plus it's a confidence thing as well I guess. Someone will be along shortly to explain it all better I'm sure.


We'll get there in the end.
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My Lane Position is always AWESOME!!

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Hie thee to a carpark, put a couple of cans down and see how slow you can do a figure of 8 - then get progressively faster. It's just a case of practice on the clutch/throttle balance. Then stop at various points on the course and practice pulling away.

There's a youtube clip of someone on here doing it. Then getting dizzy and falling over
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[doggone]

Practising in an empty car park would help.
You're balancing centrifugal force from the throttle and lean angle and it just needs your reaction fine-tuning.
Doing figure 8s as tight as possible and varying speeds is probably best.

[andy_uk]

Thanks for the hints etc
Due to our council's excessive car park charges, most of ours are fairly quiet out of season so I may do a bit of practising on an evening.
I'll try not to get too dizzy though! Don't want to end up on youtube
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...

[crackfinder]

[waffles]

Keep your head up, look where you want to go (your body and therefore your bike will follow) and ride the clutch if you need to. Take it slowly at first and you will gradually build up the confidence and the speed.
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Theory test - 19/8/09, CBT - 11/10/09, MOD 1 - 16/8/10, MOD 2 - 27/10/10
Past rides Yamaha XT125X, Triumph TT600, Honda XR250
Current rides Suzuki GSXR 600, Honda MSX125

[Angel Girl]

This is something I struggle with too. Turning right from a junction causes me a little trouble inasmuchas I struggle to turn neatly without going wide, and feel very wobbly so start to panic about slowing too much and dropping the bike!

Will practise and mileage under my belt help?
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Rides Honda CB500S aka "The Orange Peril"

[crackfinder]

[Angel Girl]

Oh good ...... still really nervous at junctions
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Rides Honda CB500S aka "The Orange Peril"

[andy_uk]

Phew! I'm glad it ain't just me
Now I think about it, my u-turns are pretty bad too :/ (in fact, I try to avoid them as much as I can!)
I just need plenty of practice I think...
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...

[Angel Girl]

Oh dear Andy ..... it looks like we'll just have to get out on the bike as much as possible. Damn.


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Rides Honda CB500S aka "The Orange Peril"

[andy_uk]

Aye well... these things have to be done!
Just need to get my fork back! (found a crack in the bit that clamps the spindle... it's being welded)
I'm missing it!
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...

[Oldie]

Turning right from a standing start at a junction is intimidating for a new rider. Your brain is suggesting that the bike will fall over.

As others have said, you should be concentrating ahead of you, and just open the throttle and the bike will turn naturally. It doesn't happen like this the first few times, but it will happen, and you'll forget about why you didn't like doing it in the first place. Persevere.

[Angel Girl]

Thanks Oldie .... oh no, another reason to keep getting out on the bike

I'll hopefully get out whenever I can and it will come easier as all of you have said
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Rides Honda CB500S aka "The Orange Peril"

[andy_uk]

Luckily I work on an industrial estate which is very very quiet on weekends Plenty of practice roads!! including a rather large expanse that I could technically cone for mod1 practice!
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...

[kerr]

iv got the exact same problem, had a shit time on my CBT with it, luckily round my street theres a junction before you go onto the main road, road round there one night about 15 times til i had it spot on, dont think the neighbors were to impressed
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aprilia 125 Af1 Futura >> Suzuki gsxr 600 srad >> J1 zx6r >> cbr 600rr >> Speed Triple

[BigGeeking]

just look where you want to go smooth on the clutch and gas and practice it will come

just enjoy yourself
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Bendy "Flip front. I can filter down the M4 while shoving a Twix in my face."
honda CG 125 2001 SOLD-- current Bandit 400--SOLD. current SV650s 2000
MOD 1 ON 20/7/2011**passed** MOD 2 ON 17/10/2011***passed***,,

[Slacker24seve...]

Try doing your slow speed riding like this girl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9twUAi1Q4o0

Or perhaps as has been mentioned try practicing in an empty car park by doing some of the Module 1 manouvers; if you plan to do your full test you'll need to know them anyway so its good to start early. Its all about the balance between clutch, throttle and for the really slow stuff the rear brake. Keep your head level and the bike will stay upright, look where you want to go and try squeezing the tank with your knees, it'll give you more control.
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Triumph Daytona 675 track bike + girlfriend's Honda Hornet 600
Selling a hack/winter bike for less than a grand? PM me.
Banger rallies are ace

[pinkyfloyd]

[Teflon-Mike]

Over-Thinking it, is something I always tell people not to do, but this is a case where a little explanation of what's going on can help.

Accelerating: - Force = Mass x acceleration. Fo you are using throttle to apply force at back wheel. THAT wants to shove you in a straight line. It also, makes teh front end go light, taking weight off the front wheel, which is the only other thing applying a force; trying to deflect the direction of travel round the bend.

So as you accelerate 'through' a turn you have to add more steering, to stop it trying to push you wide.

BUT, that front end is lighting up....

This is doing something else, as bike 'dips' from avcceleration, changes angle of incident on the front wheel, so for same angle on the handlebars, its defining a wider arc....

SO acceleration makes you run wide from the 'push'; AND reducing effective steering angle.....

YOU: nervouse and getting a feel for the dynamic, are nervouse becouse that change doesn't feel helpful.....

You can do two things...... reduce 'push' or increase steering....

Front is already light, and lacking confidence, you dont trust it, so INSTINCTIVELY you do the safest thing... reduce 'push'

This is FINE......

But to get past that dithering off the line, and make a smart take off, you need to add more steering.......

WHICH is simply a case of overcoming your instinct, and defining a new 'reflex'....

Bikes steer in two ways, turning the bars, and leaning them in relation to the road.

Lean is not just to balence centrifugal force; tilting the bike, causes it to steer.

Roll a push bike wheel down the road... goes in a straight line for a bit, then as it starts to loose gyroscopic stability, wobbles over and as soon as its tilting, goes in a curve, not a straight line, doesn't it?

So... holding acceleration that will get you up to road-speed, you need to steer more.

Turn bars, increase angle of steering....... This can work, but makes life hard work.... and still applying throttle to accelerate, you are fighting the bike imposing two big and competing forces.....

What works better is to LEAN....

This is another 'fear'. from a stand still, it doesn't feel like you are going FAST enough to lean over very much....

BUT... you aren't balencing SPEED with lean, you are balencing FORCES.... forces come from acceleration, NOT speed...

OK..... acceleration is CHANGE of speed, and in a corner, the centrifugal force you LEAN against is actually coming from the change in speed in the direction you WERE going, and teh change in speed in the new direction you ARE going......

Let me explain....... 90 degree bend; nice sweeping radius, fairly wide... you can take it at a nice constant 50mph.

As you enter the corner you are doing 50mph in the X direction, as you leave the corner you are doing 50mph in the Y direction, about half way found at 45 degrees you are doing aprox 25mph in X direction, 25mph in Y direction, one decreasing, one increasing....

ALL to do with vectors (Which is you are a mathmatician you will JUMP on becouse I have not done a 1.42 Sin 45 in there... but if you KNOW that, dont need explanation!)

So, constant SPEED round a corner, you get acceleration from change in speed from the direction change and the shift in vector proportions.

Right... accelerating from zero to twenty miles and hour, round a much TIGHTER 90 degree bend......

THINK about it.... change in speed, is MUCH faster, therfore higher acceleration PLUS acceleration from accelerating...

ALL adds up to a VERY big force, you can REALLY lean into....

Why I always laugh when people start talking chicken strips..... I can deck the pegs on a Super-Dream, in a car-park at barely more than walking pace..... TWO UP.... (Ask TheSmiler! ) in a car-park.

PURELY from, laying the bike down into a 'tight' turn, and using the throttle to accelerate and hold it up........

You have seen it on the trick riding vids is Mad Japanese kids riding CBR600's round cones.....

SO.....

what you NEED to do is over come your instincts... and learn to use LEAN to make the bike steer.

Rather than fighting the bars trying to do it all on steering input, and pussy-footing the throttle.....

Giving yourself a hard time, trying to 'balence' the bike without letting it lean.

LEANING is what bikes are all about...... and THAT is ALL you have to do.

Off the line, get it rolling, then wind open the throttle AND lay the little blighter over to make it turn.....

Chicken strips will dissapear, beutiful women with thrown themselves at your feet, bikers the length and bredth of the country will bow down in admiration, crowds will clap from the queue outside the chippy, and you WILL go round the bend....

As you can see.... I clearly already HAVE
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Angel Girl]

Well I actually read alll that .... and I think it actually makes sense even to me


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Rides Honda CB500S aka "The Orange Peril"

[arcoiris]

teflon mike - that is such a good post - ty

I seem to be nervous at cornering (and am sure its come from falling off several times doin figure 8's!!).

My OH keeps telling me not to steer, but to lean and I'm trying and your post has reinforced this - cant wait till this time next year as I know Im gonna think back to my riding and smile at how hard it all seemed! lol
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Just follow the rainbow

[Recluso]

[andy_uk]

++update++
I'm getting better at it...
Still get the occasional off day, but mostly ok!
It's just remembering to look where I want to go...
Thanks for the hints etc, (and I read all yours and understood it Tef!! - thanks for that).
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Aprilia Classic 125, GS500E, ER5-A1, ER5-C4, ER6 & an XJ6 project frame...