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| ws4936 |
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ws4936
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 Posted: 20:49 - 09 Sep 2011  Post subject: Citroen C8 immob Q... |
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Wasn't sure to put this in workshop or here, i went with here as workshop imo should be specified for bikes.
Anyways, for no apparant reason, the C8 decided to state it was having an immobiliser fault, and refused to start. I've tried both keys, and i've tried both keys remotely, seems like the car doesn't want anything to do with the keys. It's refusing even to remote lock or open any doors.
Obviously an immobiliser fault, but what i wanted to know is, why? I had started the car about 5 minutes earlier, and it hadn't worked since.
Also, anyone in briz with a laptop and diagnostics kit to come help??? There'll be a few beers in it if ya can??
Muchious gratias
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| D O G |
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D O G
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 23:01 - 09 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Sounds like the alarm control unit has gone on the fritz, or the transducer on the ignition switch (if it's got one) has failed.
If you're lucky, it will stay like it and record a fault code in the diagnostic system, if the gods aren't with you, it will be intermittant, never happen when the garage have got it and it will leave no trace.
The transducer is relatively cheap and simple to replace (although the keys may need recoding) but if it's the ECU, they can be fearsomely expensive and difficult to access.
An alternative is to get it repaired, but they normally do this by bypassing the alarm circuitry, so you end up with no alarm/immobiliser and possibly no central locking.
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 00:00 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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From recent experience, the best fix is to cut a fuel line and throw a match at it. Or, you could give all your money to the local Citroen garage. Then cut a fuel line and throw a match at it.
PS: anyone want to buy a Citroen C3? In pretty decent nick, you just can't get 3 out of 4 doors open, ever. 
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| Shaft |
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Shaft
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| Nope. |
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Nope.
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| Posted: 01:02 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rogerborg wrote: | From recent experience, the best fix is to cut a fuel line and throw a match at it. Or, you could give all your money to the local Citroen garage. Then cut a fuel line and throw a match at it.
PS: anyone want to buy a Citroen C3? In pretty decent nick, you just can't get 3 out of 4 doors open, ever. |
How much for the aforementioned C3? Ill weld all the doors shut and climb in the window 
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Former: Derbi GP1 50, Sachs XTC 125, Suzuki GSXR 400 GK73A, Kawasaki ZX7R, Suzuki DR250, Yamaha RD350
Current: 2011 Yamaha XT660Z Ténéré, 2003 Yamaha YZR-R1 5PW (In Build), 2009 Kawasaki ZZR1400 |
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| plugger147 |
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plugger147
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 08:42 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: | I'm usually very defensive of the bad rep that French cars get in general and Citroens in particular, but they do seem to suffer from some very hard to fix electrical faults these days. |
Indeed, up to now I'd have said it was a decent little car, and my wife's Picasso has been great. But this problem - and reading about other owners' experiences - is so bad that it's completely changed my view on them.
The system (on my model year) has literal deadlocks - the central locking by default locks all the doors so that they can't be opened with the handles from the inside! Mine has gone spazzy, locked itself solid, and only door that I can open is the driver's door, and only from the outside using the manual lock (by leaning out of the window...)
| Shaft wrote: | Have you tried to find an independant Citroen specialist? |
I tried a local outfit that I trust. They're accredited out the wazoo, have a wall full of diagnostics rigs and were confident that they'd sort it in short order. To their credit, they put in days of work trying to figure it out - for their benefit as much as mine. I got regular reports on what they were trying, including replacing relays, resetting the BSI (I'd already tried that), and bypassing the BSI and sending current directly to the solenoids, before they eventually admitted defeat with foot shuffling apologies - the chap was properly gutted that he couldn't figure it out.
His conclusion was that the only explanation that makes sense is that all four solenoids have failed at the same time in a way which makes them lock (they can be heard clunking) but not unlock, which of course makes no sense.
And of course, if you can't unlock the door, you can't open it, get the panel off, and get at the solenoid...
I still suspect it's the BSI board, but they can't be replaced easily; there are all sorts of different versions and issues with pairing up with the ECU that could render the car undriveable.
At this point I can take it to a main Citroen dealer and pay dealer prices for diagnosis on the remote chance that they've actually got someone there who won't just say "It's the BSI, that'll be £400 plus VAT, if we can get one". It's that, or shove it through an auction as seen, but if I do that, I'm no better than a dealer. 
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| ws4936 |
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ws4936
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ws4936
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Shaft
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| Posted: 13:12 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| ws4936 wrote: | In between the two front seats under the carpet is a tray. In that tray is an airbag ecu. It was this, that was soaked in water. The ecu's talk together and this one was shorting because of the water. Just disconnected ecu, everything is back to normal with the exception of no airbags. Ordered a new ecu, have it fitted next week. |
I know I'm going to sound like a Luddite, but the technology is getting a bit too much, especially with all these interconnected systems.
My two recent favourites are Mercs, with one telling itself the ABS had failed and going into 'limp home' mode, because a brake light bulb had blown, the other locked in park, when the brake light switch packed up.
Glad you've got it sorted, but where is the water coming from?
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| ws4936 |
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ws4936
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| Posted: 17:02 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Apparantly the water can come from multiple places, it could be a blockage/badly routed ac hose, not taking fluid out of the car, could be a leak, bad weather, previous owners washing carpets (i think this is the culprit, or even a pressure washed interior carpet as some valets do (so i've been told - how true this is idk).
All i can tell you is that it's such a relief to actually have it sorted. When we bought the car a few months back there was some kind of paint/staining on the carpet - how long it's been there idk, but i'm assuming one or even two previous owners have tried removing this with water. The tray under the carpet is basically a one piece moulded tray where the e.c.u. is bolted to the bottom of it, and then it has a plastic lid. If water gets in, i'm sure there is no way of it to evaporate. The thing is, the tray had three run in slots, like it was designed to trap water. The guy who looked at it today said he had a similar customer a few months back. Once a new E.C.U. unit went in, he siliconed the tray on before bolting it down, to stop the problem from happening again. The seal for the lid is like a black foam(?) go figure.
With the E.C.U. plugged in, the rear wiper is on constant, the front wipers/ rear and front wiper jets, full beam, indicators, warning lamps don't work. However the raido worked beautifully
Without - everything is hunky dory.
Ahh well, these things happen. If you have a similar vehicle, eurovan/c8/ulysee/807, keep the floors dry
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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Posted: 17:59 - 10 Sep 2011  Post subject: |
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The C5's suffer from that centre tunnel water ingress as well. I have a workmate whose airbag actually deployed as he was driving down the motorway. Fortunately he's Russian, so he was doubtless drunk at the time, which let him remain calm and not crash or soil himself.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| dgo1212 |
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dgo1212
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| Posted: 21:03 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Shaft wrote: |
I know I'm going to sound like a Luddite, but the technology is getting a bit too much, especially with all these interconnected systems.
My two recent favourites are Mercs, with one telling itself the ABS had failed and going into 'limp home' mode, because a brake light bulb had blown, the other locked in park, when the brake light switch packed up.
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I once had a Seat Ibiza brought in by the AA, overheating and misfiring, AA diagnosed head gasket, I completely ignored him, because he works for the gay A and doesn't know shit, and proceeded to do my own diagnosis.
Plugged in to find faults with the ABS, oxygen sensor, egr valve and a few more silly bits that made no sense to me. Decided to ignore the diagnostics and start changing things, changed coil pack, plugs and leads, lambda sensor, thermostat and cleaned out egr valve, breathers etc. Gave up and put all the old parts back on, was ready for sending it to dealers when we remembered she had the same problem the year before, we sent it to the dealer that time so looked through the paperwork to see if there was an invoice, sure enough there was a bill for £175, this was to code read the car, and change 2 brake light bulbs 
Sure enough when we checked the brake lights they weren't working, replaced the bulbs and it run like new.
Never in a million years would I have expected brake light bulbs to affect the running of an engine, also had the same problem with a clio not long after when the brake light switch packed up. |
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| Mehty |
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Mehty
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| Posted: 22:51 - 10 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Shaft
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| Posted: 01:01 - 11 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| pl3ppp wrote: |
Really think car's are being 'over designed' if a light can cause all this mayhem!  |
I remember thinking, when Renault first introduced their remote locking system (PLIP) that it would eventually end in tears; the only thing worse than the French being electronic innovators, would be the Italians getting there first!
What I can't understand is, if they can make systems clever enough to interact with each other on such a grand scale, why can't they make an ECU that recognises a blown bulb?
It can't be that difficult, we've had bulb failure displays for years.
The really frustrating thing is, it's all made life even harder for the people trying to fix things; not only do you have to have thousands of pounds worth of diagnostic equipment (which doesn't always work) with a lot of cars, you can't even swap a part for a known working unit, unless you can code it to the car.
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Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035 |
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| dgo1212 |
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dgo1212
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 07:59 - 11 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| dgo1212 wrote: | a bill for £175, this was to code read the car |
Legalised extortion. And please, nobody start on the "But the diagnostics rig costs £20,000!" tosh. There's about £10 of parts in there[1]: if a proprietary reader costs £20,000 then the manufacturer is scalping dealers, and by extension, us.
[1] ODB readers or cables and software can be had for about £20 retail, because ODB is a mandated standard and there's competition in the market. There's nothing inherently more complex in any other black box reader, manufacturers have just spotted that it's more lucrative for them to move functionality into the proprietary boxes.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| ws4936 |
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ws4936
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| Posted: 08:23 - 11 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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I agree with most of what is said here. The wife wants to buy a clapped out old thing that can only suffer from mechanical failure instead of all this computer mumbo jumbo. Unfortunately, it's obvious where it's going in the future regarding cars. I still can't believe that this little box (bout the size of a small HDD) can cause all of this mess. When i called the Citroen dealer they said they couldn't have a look at it til the 15th. I called up the the Citroen specialist who said bring it down, and we'll have a look at it - but we close at 12 today. Got it down there, they got straight on it and pretty much sorted it.
If you have problems with your Citroen i can highly reccomend Chandler Motor Co. Ltd just off Chapel Street, St. Phillips in Bristol. A big , can see them using them alot in future.
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 128 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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