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| Rake32 |
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Rake32
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 Posted: 18:03 - 16 Sep 2011  Post subject: DT 125, any good? |
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i've been looking at DT's and people say they make about 14hp?
surely it's more than that if people call them quick!
anyone know any figures? and do they 'feel' fast?
Thanks!  |
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trippz
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Rake32
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:46 - 16 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rake32 wrote: | | trippz wrote: | im not 100% sure but i think DT's are 2st which makes them faster than the average 4st 125 |
i know they're 2 stroke mate thats why im confused 
NSR and RS's make around 30, why would this make 12-14? |
NSR's dont make anywhere NEAR 30bhp, and RS's only gets 'close'.
Idea that becouse you can ride a 'Full-Power' 125 on a 33bhp licence means they MUST all make 33bhp is just a dream!
UK Market bikes are all restricted or de-tuned to the 11Kw learner legal power limit. That is 'about' 14.5 bhp. It used to be 12.5... so depending what year bike; you get different power figures.
Full Power RS; again depends on year & variant, but most powerful one to leave the factory was Italian Domestic market 'Homologation-Special' for domestic proddy racing, that made I believe 31bhp. Most powerful of the street versions, are the older ones, whioch in Italian Full-Power' spec madse I believe about 28bhp... newer ones are down around 26/27... which is still up a few on the full power NSR's which make, again depending ion year and variant, between 21 & 24bhp.
The Full-Power DT makes about 17/18bhp. Its not so radically tuned as the race replicas; becouse on a dirt bike, you want low down tractability to churn through mud and over obsticles at walking pace.... also helps aid reliability, WHICH if you dont dick with a DT trying to 'de-restrict' it... they can prove to have quite a bit of.
Recent ones, though are 'governed' to 65mph, which is about all they were ever up to anyway, curtecy of the upright riding position and barn door aerodynamics, and low, off-road gearing.
They are 'quite quick', even in restricted guise... but it is all relative.
low gearing and VERY low weight; DT in street trim, is about 110Kg or so, about 25-30Kg less than an RS or NSR; makes for very brisk acceleration.
Couple that to short wheel-base, rearward weight distribution, and high centre of gravity, you have a bike that likes to wheelie; and makes something of a hooligan's bike, round the streets and twisties, where its 'low powered' engine, with more 'useable' power in the mid rannge, can be exploited to put more power to the road more of the time, while an NSR or RS pilot would be frantically stirring cogs trying to wind the thing up and find that tiny 'spike' of peak power, before being confronted by a corner.
Point to point; they can be VERY 'quick'.... this is NOT the same as 'FAST' nor is it the same as 'Powerful' the three commodities being only notionally related.
So; what do you want the bike for? Getting places or bragging statistics?
CG125 and its ilk, only have about 10bhp, but again, mid range, and light weight, and for all thier humble looks can be quite 'brisk' if not exactly 'quick'.... compared to these things, a DT, with 25% more power is very 'quick', even though governed top speed is pretty much identical.
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Rake32
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| Posted: 18:56 - 16 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Is 27 not around 30?  sorry next time ill be more specific with my rough bhp estimates, thanks for all the info and i want it de-restricted because i wouldn't mind a fair amount of pace! i don't give a sh*t how fast it looks or is compared to other things, which is why i asked how fast they feel not how fast they are  |
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Irn-Bru
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ruck bodgers
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Irn-Bru
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| Posted: 01:04 - 17 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Yup they are amazing bikes even today. I remember one bloke on a DTR forum I was on managed 28K from his before it needed a rebuild 
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lukas222
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| Posted: 10:50 - 17 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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dangerousdave
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| Posted: 12:22 - 17 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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DT125's are probably the best all round 125 trail bike. Some of the european bikes - Aprillias, KTMs, and Huskys make more bhp but are arguably less reliable and more expensive to maintain than the DT.
DT's are pretty reliable for 2t 125. In derestricted form they make a great town bike, and good for some off-road fun, especially with knobbly tires fitted.
There's also plenty of tuning parts out there for a bit of extra power. Exhausts, big bore kits and reeds are all readily available.
Some restricted bikes were not fitted with a servo motor which controlled the power valve. In restricted form the power valve is closed, making the engine go flat above 7k. The free way to get more power was to bolt the valve open - which resulted in the power coming on strong above 7k but no midrange power! With the servo motor fitted, it allowed the valve to respond to engine revs so giving good midrange and top-end power.
I believe the later bikes were more heavily restricted due to emissions regulations with 2-strokes. These were fitted with cat-converters to reduce emissions.
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J.W.Pepper
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Fizzer Thou
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Irn-Bru
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| Posted: 18:07 - 17 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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Yep, I got mine when I passed @ 19, no point in restricting it, only a few bhp over the limit if that. Power delivery is weird going from a 2t 125 to 4t 400. At first it felt like a train, the torque is strange, just pulls you along effortlessly. Also when the drz runs out of puff the dtr will be hitting the power band. 7.5 - 8K redline compared to 12K I think it is on the DTR.
Can see a bit of an acceleration test here in a video I made:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QYCKN3hSarM&feature=player_detailpage#t=113s
Gets up to 60 fast enough, runs out of puff low 80's and will get to 95 - 100 if the road allows it.
Another important thing I'm not sure has been mentioned but the DTR will not do more than 45mpg in my experience, and that was a 2007 model, although you don't seem interested in economy 
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Rake32
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| Posted: 12:32 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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i think it'd be even weirder for me going from a 50cc 2t to a DRZ
the 50 has no movement unless its in its little powerband.
its looks brisk enough in that vid!
and i do care about MPG the reason im getting a bike is to be cheaper than a car, well thats my excuse to my parents
think a DRZ would be too much to buy though..  |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 15:55 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rake32 wrote: | i think it'd be even weirder for me going from a 50cc 2t to a DRZ
the 50 has no movement unless its in its little powerband.
its looks brisk enough in that vid!
and i do care about MPG the reason im getting a bike is to be cheaper than a car, well thats my excuse to my parents
think a DRZ would be too much to buy though.. |
So you are stepping up from a moped..... how old are you?
DT's are 'fun' and 'useful' little bikes, which is why I have one.
First priority though if you dont have a licence is to get one.
You have a little over a year, left to take tests on a 125 and gain a full licence from it. (all be it restricted to 33bhp for two years)
15 months time; only licence you will be able to get taking test on 125 will be 125 ONLY licence; you will have to be 19 to take a test to get a licence for a bigger bike, and you will have to do it DAS style on a 500cc bike you wont be able to ride on the road unless supervised by qualified instructor. Do THAT (more expensive) test, and you'll get an A2 licence, which will only let you have 45bhp bike... more than current 33bhp restriction, but unlike that with 'lapses' after two years, that 45bhp restrict will remain on your licence until you take tests over, again DAS style on a a 'big' bike, over whatever power threshold they are setting, and you wont be able to do that test until you have held the A2 licence a minimum of two years, or via DAS at the age of 24.
To get tests on, toot-sweet; regulation learner commuter; YBR, CG, CBF etc.... you'll get a lot more bike for your money; it will be less ragged, it will be more reliable, and BORING.... but, easy to ride, easy to pass tests on, and stepping up from a 50.... entertaining ENOUGH for the few months you need keep it.
Worth a lot of thought; becouse DT's are expensive to run; they are not very ecconomical as said, and tank range rather pitiful. And insurance isn't cheap either.
Costs 50% MORE for me, as a full licence holder to insure DT than it does my 750.... ponder that......
Its because they fall in the Learner-Legal category, where they are much crashed, and mush nicked, and DT's are one of the worst offenders for both; hence the 'loading'.
You could get a 33bhp 500 and it would probably be cheaper to buy; cheaper to run, and cheaper top insure, and deliver a LOT more exitement.
I like dirt wheels; but they dont make best road bikes; only worth the compromise if you DO use therm off-road; and I have to say, something like a DR350, a competant ecconomical, reliable, 'all-round' trail-bike is a good way to sit out 33bhp restrict, and a lot of fun.
DT's aren't the only 125 Dirt Bike, and DRZ's aren't the only four-stroke one.
BUT; with full licence in your pocket, and two year restriction counting down FOR you, rather than validity of CBT ebbing away and deadline to 3rd Directive licence laws getting closer; choice of bikes is HUGE, and you can have pretty much ANY bike you like, and as exiting as you can afford, or as cheap as you want.
BUT.... here and NOW is; most important thing is that full licence.
Two years time, you could be ruing the fact that to get anything more than DT125, illegally de-restricted and getting you hassle of the feds, becouse you have an L-Plate dangling off the back; and fact you are only JUST old enough to do 'big bike' test, but where a year before you could have done it in your 125, you now have to stump up cost of a bike in DAS style training & test fees; JUST to get half a licence!
Compromise now? Get regulation learner commuter; save pennies; use it for training & tests? Six, eight, twelve months, when novelty of a heady TEN bhp over the three you have now has well and truly worn off..... you can step up, and a restricted DT with 12bhp wont be much of a leap; de-restricted with 17/18, bit more exiting, BUT? For LESS money, you could have a dirt bike with anything up to 30bhp.... or a restricted 500 road bike... ALL would be possible.
De-Restricted DT, on L's?
Mugs game. Its just as illegal as buying an R1 and riding that without a licence; so why bother? Its hardly criminal genius, or huge rewards, and it ENT saving you bog-all! Merely letting you think you are getting away with something, 'cleaver'... till you find out about these new licence laws, and discover if you were REALLY clever.... you'd have beat them at thier own game, and be sitting pretty after two years, with full, unrestricted licence in your pocket.
& if you are turning 17 at the mo; that would make you just 19, when restriction lapsed, if you got your shit together.
Your peers; who dont get the heads up; would be effectively 'stuck' on 125's, or moaning about costs to get a 'half' licence, and there YOU would be.... able to jump on pretty much whatever you like..... and thunk for you, ZZR1100, 140bhp, 170mph mega-motorcycle, was the fastest bike in the world, until Black-Bird & Busa came along; bargain of the decade; you can pick something like THAT up as cheaply as a DT125.... and probably insure it for not a lot more..... at 19.... when your less clued up, think they're clever 'mates' on de-restricted 125's are STUCK on the little blighters!
Think tests, think licence, and ponder short term, something a tad LESS glamourouse, to help you do that, and let you have a whoile LOAD more glamourouse after.....
Year on a 10bhp commuter after a year on a 50..... it'll be exiting 'enough' for the first month or two.... then it will be 'OK'.... and inspiration to get them tests sorted..... that will keep you occupied till the six or eight month mark; then licence in pocket, it will be 'I want more' whatever you had ANYWAY.... and merely a case of costs, whether to sell on and trade up, or wait out the year, get your first years NCB on top of full licence to help bring insurance quotes down a bit.....
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Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Rake32
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 16:44 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rake32 wrote: | And would I have to wait Half a year to take my test? |
You DONT, people DO do thier tests in a week..... BUT:
Expect to spend three to six months to get your licence. &TBH, most students probably spend closer to a year.
All depends how keen they are, but usual scenario is they do CBT, get a bike, and its a year before they actually THINK about getting a licence, and THEN far too often they are rushing trying to get it ALL in ahead of thier CBT cert expiring.
You need your Theory/Haz-Pep; apointment queues vary; but normally around a fortnight; so start looking to book a date, maybe a month before 17th.
Dont BANK on passing first time. Its annoying. & its one of those things that can set you back.
Likewise, Mod1; first time pass rates aren't that high; and you have to wait 3 days before you can re-sit; and again, test queues around two weeks.
Mod 2? You need the CBT, Theory/Haz & Mod 1 to sit it; can book without, but if you dont have certs on the day; wont let you sit, and you'll loose the £75 test fee.
Hence one step at a time, three to six months; and IF you get it earlier then so much the better.....
| Rake32 wrote: | Why do I have to get a commuter 125 for that long to take my test? |
You dont....... BUT
Easy to ride; uncompromised road bike, makes riding easy, makes OBSERVING your riding easy; increases your test chances. Also 'looks' sensible and considerate, and bloke assessing you, given only 45minutes to do so WILL use first appearances!
| Rake32 wrote: | And Didn't know the A2 category was changing, better jump on it |
Yes, you had.
| Rake32 wrote: | and I know they aren't the only bikes but they are, as far as I can tell the type i would like. |
At the moment, from your possition as a wannabe, school-boy on pocket money budget......
| Rake32 wrote: | Being 17 I'd obviously like something good looking, even more so as I have to drive through a crowd of my school to get to sixth form! ( I know you'll say I shouldn't care, but who doesnt?) |
YBR125 is not UGLY....... and it does a job.
And you know, that 'Crowd'; they wont take fuck all notice of what KIND of bike you are on...... there may be ONE or TWO that have some inkling or notion what it is, and there will undoubtedly be, the odd 'knocker' who deigns to comment.....
I turned up to college on a shit-bag bitsa DT50......
"LOL! What a HEAP! Why y'ride that?!"
"Did you enjoy your bus ride?" was the answer that USUALLY shut them up!
Six months to a year; and those who'se opinions are actually worth anything will NOT be putting you down for riding a humble commuter-bike......
Upper 6th? When you turn up on a DR350 or a Dominator 600..... ?!?! Having got your licence; dumped the L's grabbed your first years NCB, and bought a bike that is something SERIOUSE to look at, you'll have the kid that bought the DT you were THINKING of getting gob-smacked, at how 'impressive' it is, and that 'crowd'... well they wont be thinking his bike is the dogs danglies coiming in sounding like a bee in a bean ten, when your biog single rumbles in sounding like thunder, will they?
THEN you can point out that your Dominator or DR350 cost 2/3 the price of shit bag DT, cost 2/3 the price to insure and has 3x the power.... ALL for the sake of £121.50's worth of test fees, a little effort, and putting up with a less glamourouse machine for a few months.....
What would you rather have? Few scoffs and easily deflected jibes from know nothiung idiots, and a whole LOAD of biking...... or the accolade of a few no-nothing spotty oiks, and one smart arse you cannot shut up saying "Yeah, but you still got an L-plate on the back!"
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Rake32
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| Posted: 16:57 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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it really takes 3 months to get the licence? surely i can still ride though? and i was hoping to hire a bike for my test, do all my tests hopefully pass as i've been riding a while and got good clutch and bike control, along with road knowledge especially for my age.
the cbt bloke was amazed how good i was on my first go.
So in theory could i not book everything including bike hire before, pass and be on my way in less than a month?
And i do think the YBR125 is ugly, it's not so much the crowd, i didn't explain well i have to love a bike i get stick for mine all the time i couldn't care less.
Obviously if i must go down the long arsed way with a YBR i'm sure i'd manage fine, much prefer to roll around on a DRZ from the off though... |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 18:10 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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| Rake32 wrote: | it really takes 3 months to get the licence? |
It ALL depends on the candidate.
Intensive 'DAS' style courses, get a lot of people a test in a week.
But lot of luck involved to get 1st time passes on everything AND bludy expensive if you fail.
Three to six months is 'typical' for students I've tought.
Some; yeah; taking it in stages; not booking ahead or risking lost fees; passing first time; six eight weeks.
ALL depends.
Training is expensive; and hiring bike, and paying instructor to do it in a hurry; a lot of the cost MERELY bike hire and instructor time to watch you practice.
Riding between lessons, ecconomical way to go, cuts down paid for training time, lets you practice cheaply as much as you like, and yes, you could do that on your 50, to some degree, but obviousely swapping between bikes, you'd be making life harder for yourself, and you wouldn't be getting used to the 125, or speeds over 30....
| Rake32 wrote: | Obviously if i must go down the long arsed way with a YBR i'm sure i'd manage fine, much prefer to roll around on a DRZ from the off though... |
Long arsed way often actually the quicker; spend £6-700 on an intensive course and NOT get licence out of it, can take a long while to save back up,m get back on form to do it again.
YBR? Its only an example; what about a CBF, or a CG, or an EN,,, doesn't really matter; just has to have two wheels and be on DSA 'Standard Bike' list; be mechanically sound, reletively tidy, well priced and easy to flog on after.
And you DONT have to ride the thing to school; and if you did, WGAS what folk say or think?!
Answer is simple; "Its ONLY to get my licence on"
AND how did THEY get to school? They got anything 'better'?
Like I said; you might get scoffed at by lad with a DT or something 'coo-L' with the emphasios on the 'L' in 'Coo-L.....
To whome you simply smile and nod, and 'tolerate' until you have ditched the L.... then you pull up along side on your DRZ or your Dominator, or whatever, and THEN see who's taking the piss.
End of the day your a school-boy. & Very few School-boys even HAVE a motorbike; and anything with an engine is going to be more than most of them can even aspire to.
YBR? on pocket money budget, is very doable. Very hard to get more L-Plate biking for your money. DT, yeah, great fun, but YBR you may be looking at something like £300 a year to insure it, where DT would be more like £500. There's your test fees, saved on that alone. DT, 50mpg? Compared to YBR at 75? you get 50% more miles for your money; means more money in your pocket towards bigger bike, or more time in teh saddle having fun riding the thing.
You are used to a 50, which uses a thimble full of fuel a year; and which you have only had to pay the insurance on once.
Step up to a 125 and the costs WILL start to come home; £5 worth of fuel will no longer fill your tank or last you all month.... it will take £20 to fill your tank, and you'll find yourself filling it every fortnight, reducing to every ten days, to every week, as you start getting more adventurouse..... thats four times the price.....
CHEAP is good.....
And YBR's and the ilk, very good at doing 'cheap'....
And stepping up from THAT to four stroke dirt-bike, as said, the lower insurance, and better ecconomy, will help damped the hit of the added runningf costs on those.
Yes, be NICE to start straight off on a DRZ..... BUT..... setting your sights a tad lower, making your ambitions a bit more achievable, more likely to realise them....
AND when it comes to bikes, there is NOT hurry....... rushing is a sure way to get hurt or come to grief when it comes to things with two wheels.
End of the day; your call, but..... advice is there, up to you to decide what's the best way to go about things, and whats most likely to actually 'work' for you.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Rake32
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| Posted: 18:30 - 18 Sep 2011 Post subject: |
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I appreciate all the advice your giving me mate 
But i don't see how it can be that hard to pass this test? my 50 goes 50 anyway, i'm not an idiot who doesn't care about the law but have you ever ridden a restricted geared 50? awful.
So say i have good bike control, can pass a theory and ride safely why do i need these lessons and more bike experience? the reason i got my bike is because it was the closest to a real bike i could get to gain experience.
And my 50 is god awful on fuel anyway it only gets around 90-100 miles a tank, about 6.5 litres i think, £8 fill up.
I'm not planning on spending £6-700 on intensive courses, id be happy with a lesson or two then a test.
I understand it would only be a temp bike, may have to consider it.
I'll talk to the bloke at the test center too and see if he thinks it's possible. |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 15 years, 43 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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