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advice on how not to get wiped out flitering

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nathandenniso...
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

I have done a fair bit of filtering, but do so when I feel confident enough there is a big enough gap. Today down a NSL road traffic was at a stand still one way and nothing coming the other way (not a thick white lane), I started filtering on the other side of the road at no more than 15mph, all of a sudden some big 4x4 decides he can't be bothered waiting and does a U turn without looking, I had to slam on and just came to a stop, I shouted at him and bibbed and he didn't even acknowledge me. Was there anything I could have done to make sure this doesn't happen again ( I do observe and treat all car drivers like idiots), or sometimes is there just nothing you can do to avoid a situation like that?
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 16:36 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

In a situation like that I find it's best to filter more in the other lane if you can. Then if someone does something stupid you have more time to react. Can't pre-empt them all though I'm afraid.
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Last edited by Wafer_Thin_Ham on 18:10 - 30 Sep 2011; edited 1 time in total
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MotorbikerTom
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PostPosted: 16:42 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyone has their own style of filtering, some go slowly to be extra safe, some go quick, but it's all to do with what the road is (a dual carriageway or single carriageway) and how the car drivers are. You always get some drivers who stick as close to the car next to them as possible so you can't get past, but equally there are car drivers who move across to give you more space. Like you say there will always be the possibility of someone cutting across lanes or in your case doing a u-turn, but that is when the speed you are travelling matters. If your going quick then obviously you have less time to react, but if your going slowly it is easier to react and to predict as you have more time to see what the car is doing before they move.

Stay safe bro Thumbs Up
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crackfinder
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Big_Ham wrote:
In a situation like that I find it's best to filter more in the other lane if you can. Then if someone does something stupid you have more time to react. Can't pre-empty them all though I'm afraid.


This Rolling Eyes + I'm ultra cautious when the traffic is completely stopped as you almost always get someone who does a u-turn.

Also keep an eye on the front wheels of the cars ahead, if they are going to pull out/u-turn you will see the steering turn before they actually move into your path.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 18:50 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

nathandennison wrote:
all of a sudden some big 4x4 decides he can't be bothered waiting and does a U turn without looking, I had to slam on and just came to a stop, I shouted at him and bibbed and he didn't even acknowledge me. Was there anything I could have done to make sure this doesn't happen again


Set fire to him?

Oh, about the filtering? Watch the front wheels is about the best advice you'll get, I think. Don't expect indication or even any head movement.

Treat each car as a separate overtake, which is stressful as heck, but the alternative is going through a side window sooner or later.

You can also use your horn to alert other road users to your presence. Almost nobody does this, but it is the intended use of it. People will hear it as "angry sound" though because that's how it's usually (mis) used.

I've vaguely pondered the merits of fitting an auxiliary horn that plays a silly and less aggressive sound (eBay "12v novelty horn"). It's not as daft an idea as it sounds, if it gets you a horn that - while not suitable for an MOT - might actually get used for its proper purpose. I note that Busters are one of the sellers, so I'm not the first to have this idea.

[UPDATE]
Just ordered one. Surely £5.90 worth of larks there. Very Happy
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Recluso
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

I totally want recordings of how it sounds Rogerborg Very Happy

OT: I think watching the wheels is very sound advice. You don't have to watch them obsessively, just keep an eye as you pass the cars. Unfortunately, filtering is a risk in itself and it pisses off a lot of car drivers who have their little moments of the green eyed monster when they realise they're still stuck in traffic for the forseeable future.

If I don't trust a car, I tend to slow down a little more. Too many cars I've come up to and there's been that little '... I don't trust you' niggle. I've slowed down and 'lo! Half the time they've pulled some moronic stunt. Like a U-Turn.

Pace yourself and be safe. And resist the urge to kick in the doors of the drivers who try to kill you.
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SweenyT
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

Recluso wrote:
.....OT: I think watching the wheels is very sound advice. You don't have to watch them obsessively, just keep an eye as you pass the cars. Unfortunately, filtering is a risk in itself and it pisses off a lot of car drivers who have their little moments of the green eyed monster when they realise they're still stuck in traffic for the forseeable future.

If I don't trust a car, I tend to slow down a little more. Too many cars I've come up to and there's been that little '... I don't trust you' niggle. I've slowed down and 'lo! Half the time they've pulled ome moronic stunt. Like a U-Turn.

Pace yourself and be safe. And resist the urge to kick in the doors of the drivers who try to kill you.


This ^ I always keep a cautious eye out for the wheels as they're the first thing that moves before the drivers even looked in their mirrors, etc. I also don't filter much if I don't know the roads at all.

Filtering/overtaking is a risk every rider takes. The trick is being aware of everything around you and ahead of you and knowing when to slow down or stop before a situation develops. Even then you cannot anticipate what someone else is going to do. All you can do is be ready for it in case something does.

Safe riding Thumbs Up
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Howling TerrorOutOfOffice
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 29 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The beauty of filtering and having the opposite lane clear is you can stay wider. Use the road so you can scan further. It's easy to be too quick in that situation so easy does it.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 08:01 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

Recluso wrote:


Pace yourself and be safe. And dont forget to kick in the doors of the wanky cagers who try to kill you.


Just fixed this for you Thumbs Up
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 10:30 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

Recluso wrote:
Pace yourself and be safe. And resist the urge to kick in the doors of the drivers who try to kill you.


Take their mirror instead, they didn't feel the need to use it in the first place. Laughing
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nathandenniso...
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PostPosted: 10:36 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Re: advice on how not to get wiped out flitering Reply with quote

##Paddy## wrote:
Recluso wrote:
Pace yourself and be safe. And resist the urge to kick in the doors of the drivers who try to kill you.


Take their mirror instead, they didn't feel the need to use it in the first place. Laughing


Laughing Laughing I'm sure many people have done this before and got away with it however I'm sure some have been caught,what action could they take against you? (guessing reporting to the police for the damages)
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robust denial, it'll never be prosecuted.

I like the suggestion of just opening their rear door. It's non destructive, gets them out of their cocoon, and if they do go mental over it, they have no reasonable mitigation for over-reacting.
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TheSmiler
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm this video may give you some nice tips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1QKVtuvHg
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Recluso
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Robust denial, it'll never be prosecuted.

I like the suggestion of just opening their rear door. It's non destructive, gets them out of their cocoon, and if they do go mental over it, they have no reasonable mitigation for over-reacting.


Must... fight... urge...

That is going to be just TOO tempting for words Very Happy
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anthony_r6
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PostPosted: 18:13 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Someone mentioned opening the rear door of a car as they drove past a while back, ever since I've been DYING for someone to p*ss me off in traffic so I could do this. As of yet it hasn't happened, but I live in hope Laughing
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Fifteen15
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnPhonEh wrote:
Someone mentioned opening the rear door of a car as they drove past a while back, ever since I've been DYING for someone to p*ss me off in traffic so I could do this. As of yet it hasn't happened, but I live in hope Laughing

Lol amazing idea.
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Alex_B
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bah, I dunno. I think they could probably do you for interfering with personal property or some shit like that.

Breaking a Mirror is also probably out of the realms of actions taken as the guy behind would be a witness and someone would have your number, guaranteed!!!!
Criminal damage, coupled with undue care etc, etc.

It's a nice thought but in the real world, not really feasible.

Saying that, I'd love to see the Biker in front go for it!!! Thumbs Up
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Louise
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Everyones style of filtering is different.... If trafic is at a standstill, and nothing is comming the other way, I tend to stick as far to the right as I can so drivers see me, if they wish to do a U turn in the road.
I dont filter all the time, depends on the situation. But, its other objects you need to worrie about aswell.
Last week, a known spot of traffic heading out of portsmouth was as a standstill... I filtered out, which was clear - only to have a U turner, and a person walk right out (in front of a lorry so I couldnt see) But, I was slow and managed to stop.
Some people seem to think if a heavy load gives way, its clear for them, and not to look..
So be carefull if passing a bus/lorry Thumbs Up
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shooter
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheSmiler wrote:
Hmm this video may give you some nice tips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1QKVtuvHg


Wow. This is exactly what I don't do.

Maybe I'm just a pussy, but I wouldn't bet on that guy being alive a couple of years from now.

Not that it's extreme of course, there's a million youtube clips of people being more stupid than that, but as a "how to" instructional video.... well I'm kinda stunned.
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Alex_B
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PostPosted: 20:52 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

shooter wrote:
TheSmiler wrote:
Hmm this video may give you some nice tips
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-1QKVtuvHg


Wow. This is exactly what I don't do.

Maybe I'm just a pussy, but I wouldn't bet on that guy being alive a couple of years from now.

Not that it's extreme of course, there's a million youtube clips of people being more stupid than that, but as a "how to" instructional video.... well I'm kinda stunned.


There is very, very, VERY little wrong with the filtering on that video. Maybe to close to oncoming at times but that is filtering!! I see FAR, FAR worse on the way home tbh.

This is what filtering is though. Do it or don't do it and sit in the line of traffic, it's all good but please state your reasons as he does a good job.

I'd be interested to hear others (and your) opinions on what could be done differently.

This is bad:
If I was taking bets on someone not being around or at least knocked off it would be this, not the guy you're criticising.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDGvT6AxM4U&feature=fvwp&NR=1
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shooter
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PostPosted: 21:36 - 30 Sep 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_B wrote:

There is very, very, VERY little wrong with the filtering on that video. Maybe to close to oncoming at times but that is filtering!! I see FAR, FAR worse on the way home tbh.

This is what filtering is though. Do it or don't do it and sit in the line of traffic, it's all good but please state your reasons as he does a good job.

I'd be interested to hear others (and your) opinions on what could be done differently.

This is bad:
If I was taking bets on someone not being around or at least knocked off it would be this, not the guy you're criticising.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kDGvT6AxM4U&feature=fvwp&NR=1



The guys lane is blocked, so he basically just rides down the wrong side of the road and hopes all the oncoming traffic notices him and gets out the way. He is like 3 foot into the wrong side of the road with continuous oncoming vehicles Shocked

I also noticed a couple of times when there was a cyclist filtering up the inside at the same time as he was filtering down the outside, which is a pretty serious potential hazard which he didn't even appear to register.

Yes I know people do filter like this, and some a lot worse. That's up to them. And there's nothing drastically wrong with it, if you don't mind putting your life in the hands of inattentive drivers as a habit. Personally, I prefer not to, because inattentive drivers kill bikers.

And an instructional video which suggests nothing more helpful than "just ride down the wrong side of the road and everyone will get out of your way" really isn't very helpful.

I just don't have that much trust in other drivers. But like I say, maybe I'm just a pussy. Embarassed
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Alex_B
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PostPosted: 01:05 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Na mate, that's fair enough. If you feel that way, no worries. Thumbs Up

It's just that that's how it's done. (just my opinion)

I really don't think his life is in any more danger than needs be though.

All filtering is a calculated risk, his road is straight, he has ample view of the road and traffic ahead.
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anthony_r6
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PostPosted: 07:07 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex_B wrote:
Na mate, that's fair enough. If you feel that way, no worries. Thumbs Up

It's just that that's how it's done. (just my opinion)

I really don't think his life is in any more danger than needs be though.

All filtering is a calculated risk, his road is straight, he has ample view of the road and traffic ahead.


And he's a well trained- advanced rider that teaches people. I'd say he knows exactly what he's doing. It's not like he's going particularly fast anyways.

To the original poster - if you're not confident on filtering there are a few options. Go it alone, start slipping in beside cars when they're on the far left of the road (I.E. So you can sit comfortably to the left of the white line,) just in front of the car so they'll allow you to pull off first. Ride slow and make sure you're judging what on coming traffic have to work with. If there's a car on their side, make sure you give 'em room to come through before you continue.

Alternatively go for a ride with someone who filters and pick up some pointers and tips. Alternatively pay for some lessons, tell them you want some filtering help, I know the school near me offers it on the advanced lesson stuff.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheSmiler wrote:


AnPhonEh wrote:
And he's a well trained- advanced rider that teaches people.


Training doesn't make you a safe rider. Riding safe makes you a safe rider.

The legality:

Highway Code wrote:

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so


Is it "necessary" to make progress? I'm not convinced that's the intention. If it were, the clause would be meaningless.

Again and again the rider makes other road users take avoiding action, both oncoming traffic, and by forcing through alongside cars at traffic islands rather than waiting another 2 seconds to slot in behind them. Instant test fail. Apparently RoSPA tests are laxer than DSA ones in some areas. Neutral

Hilariously at 4:12 the caption "Road a bit narrower MORE CAUTION" appears. The rider then immediately speeds up, precisely at the point when the traffic on the left is stationary and there's no oncoming traffic - that's the classic U-turn SMIDSY risk.

Now, I'm not saying that the rider was actionably wrong at any time, and I agree that if you want to make progress in that traffic, that's the only way to do it. But at times he was not fully in control of the situation and was riding his luck.
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shereen
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 01 Oct 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:

The legality:

Highway Code wrote:

Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.

if the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so


Is it "necessary" to make progress? I'm not convinced that's the intention. If it were, the clause would be meaningless.


Although if you dont make good progress in your mod 2 you would be penalised. I suppose it all depends on what you define as 'good progress'
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