Hello - Newbie question about throttle control.

[hotmud]

Hi
First time posting here, so hello to you all.

Passed my CBT and bought a CBF125, been out on it about 5 times/100 or so miles (bike was mint and had 1100miles on it, 2010 model). I love the bike, its a great starter and I'm enjoying my first time riding experience on it while I build up my confidence and skill.

My only gripe is the throttle. I'm not sure if it's me or not but I'm having a bit of a problem with fine throttle control at the point where it engages/disengages. It seems to be only micrometers from where the throttle is off to where it opens (the actual throttle grip has a good bit of slack before biting, I don't mean this so much) and I'm getting a bit of lurching and diving in 1st, particularly from a stop at junctions etc. Sometimes in 2nd as well. Once the bike is moving momentum smoothes things out.

Is this normal? Should I ride the clutch more or can it be adjusted? Once the throttle is open its more progressive for the rest of its travel, it's literally the fist millimetre of rotation that seems to produce a disproportionally large amount of acceleration.

[edb]

I'll only reply as someone with very little experience and I'm sure others can clear it up better, but from what I was taught you don't use the throttle for slow control, you use the clutch. The throttle is just used to give it the necessary revs/engine power and the clutch is used to control how that power is applied. So you're pretty constantly adjusting the clutch not throttle.

Although from what I understand of it and my first few days on a 125 the throttles are pretty much on/off which seems to be a problem with smaller bikes generally, not a rider fault.

Just my understanding but like I say others will know a lot more. I might have totally misunderstood your question :D

[hotmud]

yes, you understood my post perfectly.

Just wanted to get some feedback about what is the norm and how I should proceed (better clutch skill or adjust throttle). Worried about overdoing the clutch and developing a bad habit riding it.

That said the CBF throttle is not so much on/off, there's a bit of progressive power control there. Just the initial 'on' bit I need to control better. Think I'll adjust the throttle a bit to remove some of the slack though as that doesn't help.

[J.M.]

Whilst working at low speeds (in gears 1&2) that is pretty much to be expected. This is where clutch control comes in.

Fine clutch control shouldn't take you too long to get a hang of really, but you really need to get to know your bike. When your bike gets to the point where it "cuts off" then just as your reaching that point is where you're starting to disengage the clutch - and the same process in reverse for speeding up.

Also for very slow riding it's common to use the back brake lightly.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[multijoy]

When pulling away or moving slowly, you need to be balancing the clutch and throttle. Ideally (although I stand to be corrected!), you'll have your throttle open at steady revs and feed the clutch in slowly, adjusting your speed with the clutch rather than the throttle until you're moving a little faster than a brisk walking pace, at which point you should be able to release the clutch (or get ready to change gear!).
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'11 CBF1000A, '99 C90, '98 CB500
silky666: He rode amazingly well considering his bike is the weight of a small van and had slicks on.

[hotmud]

thanks guys - I will pay more attention to my left hand next ride.

[Pete.]

Sod trying to balance throttle and clutch for slow moving if you're a novice.

Constant slow-moving: Little bit of throttle, control the speed on the rear brake. Also works great for U-turns - try it!

If you're struggling in stop-start traffic, remember that you don't have to move under power, you can use power to get the bike moving then pull in the clutch and let momentum carry you along.

Youll get used to the lurching - or rather, you'll get used to the bike and the lurching will disappear soon enough. For now, just keep a good stopping distance so if you do mess up you have a bit of a safety cushion.
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a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[FerretFing]

Welcome to the forum

Find a nice quiet car park & do some slow control practise

[hotmud]

thanks Pete, that's good advice - so use the back brake to control speed while moving slow, and clutch to avoid stalling? Still haven't quite got the feel for how low the revs will go on the bike - very different to a car - it always surprises me as I think it'll stall but keeps going I'm also pretty sure I'm riding in too low a gear most times as a result. Enjoying it all the same.

[Pete.]

Yet, lurching is usually a sign that you are in too low a gear.
____________________
a.k.a 'Geri'

132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good

[harscot]

Hi bud con grats on cbt and welcome, some good advice already given, try holding the revs around the 2000 mark with the clutch in then SLOWLY let the clutch out, if you think your going to quick pull the clutch in a tad while putting slight pressure on the rear brake, its surprising how slow you can go ( and stay upright ) using this method, as said already find a quite car park or similar and practice stop, start, slow moving. Stay safe out there

[hotmud]

Thanks for the welcome it was a thrill to obtain my CBT, looking forward to gaining more experience and then the DAS.

I'm OK at controlling the bike slowly once in motion though, and yes it is surprising just how slow you can go - it's starting from a stop that sometimes doesn't go to plan. The CBF has no rev counter so I have no idea what the revs are, I just go by the sound and feel.

[Teflon-Mike]

OK; well I'm a trials rider, diamond cutters of the persuit, all about precission & low speed control. Little nugget for you, when I started, I was misguidedly told by a non-trials rider, to use the clutch hard. I was 'corrected' by an old hand, who told me to stop 'fannying around' with the clutch; get it in gear, get the clutch out and use the throttle. All of a sudden, I was a trials rider, not a puddle paddler.

Yes, fine clutch control is important, BUT, the clutch is is a drive line switch, whose purpose is to remove load from the gearbox to enable gear changes, and to allow the engine and gearbox speeds to be 'matched' when changing gears; it is NOT a device for modulating 'thrust' or governing load; THAT is the function of the throttle.

There are variouse reasons for 'riding the clutch'; and at very low speed that's usually to get the engine up over tick-over into the rpm range where its making enough power to generate thrust so it doesn't stall, for the very low speed just above stationary....

HOWEVER; yes, little bikes with little engines, dont have much power and really do struggle to make thrust at tick-over revs....

BUT, that is why you have gear-boxes, and little bikes with little engines have very very low gearing... and they DO have very low gearing, many 125's will top out at barely 20mph in 1st gear!

CBF 125 has what rev range from a tick-over at around 1,000rpm, to a red line at what 10,000rpm?

So roughly 2mph per 1000rpm..... or clutch out in 1st bike ought to creep forward at about 2mph.......

'Normal' walking pace is about 3mph, so the bike OUGHT to creep along at a positive dawdle.... no throttle, clutch out.

Now; as an instructor; on the playground, slow speed control is big bit of CBT and MOD 1, and something a lot of people struggle with.

Now I am NOT going to 'rubish' advice about clutch slipping or brake dragging. These are very useful techniques; BUT they are more 'advanced' techniques, and on the playground they are SO often tought 'too soon' to over come 'niggles' in plain, simple, basic machine control. They are great techniques, and can work really really well, BUT its like bolting a super-charger onto an engine with
worn out bores and piston rings; half the benefit is going to be wasted just making up the hole in performance that 'deficiency' is causing; but a 'bolt-on' supercharger is a 'quick-fix' as you dont have to tear the engine to bits to fix the problem.....

SO... back to basics, need to get to grips with launch technique and basic throttle control, and low speed riding.... and the BIKE ought to be capable of trickling along 2mph or so, at barely tick-over revs.

And one of the common reasons people struggle with this is quite simple. They don't understand how the throttle works...

Bike sat stationary, twist the grip, engine revs rise..... twisting the grip makes engine go faster, doesn't it? SO, when you get on and engage gear, and twist grip, makes engine revs rise, makes BIKE go faster..... therfore, SPEED is proportional to how far you twist the throttle, RIGHT?

Wrong. Speed is a secondary 'effect' of twisting the throttle. Lets have a look at a bit of mechanics here and see what is going on.

Twist grip has a bit of wire wrapped around it. When you twist the grip, pulls more wire onto the grip-tube.... so you get a bit of movement.... follow the wire to where it ends, and you'll find a carburettor or a Fuel-Injection Throttle-Body.

Now; doesn't matter, at this point what KIND of carburettor or EFi system you have, all that is is a device to meter and mix fuel into the air-stream going into the engine to make a 'charge' that will burn. But we are interested in is what that bit of wire from the twist grip is attached to, and on an old motorbike, it will be a carburettor 'slide' on a more modern one, or EFi a throttle butterfly.

These are simple 'valves'. Case of the carburettor slide a 'gate' valve, a throttle butterfly, a 'flap' or 'butterfly' valve.... But in either case they do the same thing..... FILL A HOLE!

And when you twist the grip, pull that bit of wire, it lifts the slide or turns the butterfly, and moves a bit of metal out the way filling LESS of the hole.......

So, twist grip released, hole into engine that the air gets in is closed; twist grip wound fully round, hole that lets air into the engine is fully open.

The Twist grip is NOT controlling engine revs, it is DIRECTLY controlling the amount of AIR going into the engine. More throttle, more air, less throttle, less air.

Air, ONCE its past that throttle valve, gets fuel squirted in it, goes into cylinder, gets burned, makes motion....

More AIR then makes more MOTION.....

With me so far.... simple enough isn't it..... OK, so now we get to the complicated bit....

So, makes sense, you let more or less air in the engine, you get more or less air in the cylinder, and mixed with the right amount of fuel it will give a 'bang' pushing piston down. More air, gets more fuel, gives bigger bang, pushes pistoin down HARDER....

That all seems pretty simple. Complicated bit IS, and its not THAT complicated, you can get the same 'force' at the rear wheel one of two ways.

One BIG bang in the cylinder, or a number of LITTLE ones.

Little bit of science; fuel = energy. Power is rate of energy transfer.

In real world words; work is movement, and thats energy. Fuel is energy, and engines turn one into the other, power is how fast they do it.

Controling 'thing' here is the fuel; basically you need a certain amount to do a certain amount of work, or get a certain amount of motion; and fuel needs a certain amount of air to let it burn properly to get it.

So as a rough reckoner; full throttle at tick-over, lets in enough air to completely fill the cylinder and get a 1000 'big' bangs a minute. BUT if you let the engine rev to 3,000 revs, and hold the throttle only 1/3 open...... you are letting in only a third of a cylinder of air per rev, and getting 3000 'little' bangs per minute......

Same amount of air goes into the engine, in the same time; same amount of fuel goes into that air to turn it into charge; so you are making the same 'power'.......

Does THAT make sense? Becouse we are now getting there.... ish.

The TWIST GRIP is controling DIRECTLY the flow of AIR into the engine.

THAT by association controls the amount of force the engine makes.

At idle.... the force the engine is making is JUST enough to turn the engine over and keep it spinning at tick over revs.

Wind open the throttle, let more air in the engine, makes more force.

Without any 'load' on the engine, or extra resistive force to balence that extra force letting more air in makes...... the engine will accelerate...... revs go up. 'revving' the engine.

Put LOAD on the engine, ie stick it in gear and release the clutch... you are applying a resistive force.

Think about this one...... this is your 'launch' technique.....

Without touching the twist grip, engaging a gear and releasing the clutch.... MOSTLY will cause the engine to 'stall'.

Simple reason; with the throttle closed, air going into the engine is only 'just' enough to overcome the engines internal resistance..... apply a shed load more resistance..... asking it to make the whole BIKE move..... and without any more air, to make any more charge, to make any more 'force', you have a bigger load than you have force to move.

That load will slow the engine down, and and at a lower speed, its even LESS able to burn enough charge to make the force needed... so it will slow even more, and so on, until it simply stops turning, and you have stalled.

SO, going from 'idle' to moving you HAVE to open the throttle, let more air into the engine, to make more force, to over come the 'load' you are putting on it from asking it to move.

You are NOT asking (yet) for the engine to 'accelerate'... merely go from idle to load, at the SAME revs, but to DO that you HAVE to open the throttle.....

I know, long winded explanation of something very simple, and probably teaching people to suck eggs.... BUT..... getting people to think it through and realise what the throttle is ACTUALLY doing, is often an apiphany. And quite commonly to car drivers who have always called the throttle an 'accelerator' and never paused to realise what they are doing with it, pressing it makes them 'accelerate' end of.....

But, in reality, once you are moving, you roll OFF the throttle to hold a constant speed.... becouse the throttle is governing the amount of force the engine makes. And ONCE you have accelerated to a certain speed, you dont need as much force to simply hold speed.

Force = Mass x Acceleration. So if you aren't accelerationg you dont need force, right?

So flat level road; constant throttle constant speed, everything is in balence; Get to a hill, you slow down.... OR you have to open the throttle..... but you are NOT accelerating, are you... more throttle NO change in speed..... you are simply governing the engine to make MORE force to overcome increased 'load'.

Back to launch technique.....

Same deal... ish... but, going from zero road speed to moving, you have to match the engine speed to road speed through the clutch, and balence the force the engine is generating, against JUST that force you are applying from the clutch.

Remember, the bike WILL run at 2mph, clutch out, at tick-over.

If you get it moving then slow down to as 'slow' as you can go, you will more easily see it will do that, BUT, you have to hold just a fraction of throttle to make it do it, probably wont do it, 'off' throttle.

So in theory, you ought to be able to 'launch' without reving the engine, simply balencing the force you feed in on the clutch, against the throttle.

But in practice, you will open the throttle slightly ahead of applying load with the throttle; the excess 'force' you are about to use to generate thrust to get you moving, 'initially' making the engine revs rise.... as you feed in the clutch, the revs will drop, so you will open the throttle a little more, and repeat, until you are clutch out.... and THEN rolling, but, wanting to accelerate ANYWAY, revs rising beyond tickover.

Now it gets interesting......

At tick over, throttle is governing air flow into the engine, limiting power made.

If you look at an engine power chart, power ergo force increases with engine revs.

So, at tick-over revs of 1000rpm, engine may only be able to deliver 1-2bhp at full throttle. At 10,000 revs it is probably able to deliver full 12bhp at full throttle.

So at tick-over, full throttle would give say 2bhp, closed throttle o.2bhp...... difference in teh amount of force the engine makes on the throttle is NOT very big.... certainly not in comparison to peak power revs where at 10,000rpm may be getting full 12bhp, on the throttle....

But, if you look at that power chart, ramps quite steeply; tend to be hill shaped, so they go up quite a bit from tick-over to around 3,000 rpm, from there on up the curve isn't as steep right the way up to peak revs, though on more highly tuned machines often get a second ramp higher up towards peak, which is what people call 'the power band'.... but dont need to worry about that.

Thing is; might only get 1bhp at full throttle at tick-over rpm. But at just 2000rpm, power is likely to double, and by 3000rpm more than tripple.

https://i178.photobucket.com/albums/w269/teflons-torque/030_035_Yamaha_DT/MCM%20Article/OMA_011.jpg

Power chart for DT175MX, purely becouse I have it to hand and its pretty 'reasonable'

Doesn't actually go as low as 1000rpm, but if you look, its a reasonably straight line, that would cut 1000rpm at less than 1bhp, but is ramping to nearly 5bhp by 3000rpm. That bike carries on ramping fairly strongly all the way to 9,000 rpm peak, though its actually falling off a little in the bhp per rev increase as it goes up.

Thing is; as you open the throttle, this is what happens.
You let more air in the engine.
That air makes more force.
That force is used to accelerate both bike and engine
Engine speed increases, force engine is making increases from the power ramp.
At low speeds, the 'drag' you are subject to is quite low', so you accelerate quite hard.
In low gears, the force the engine is making is magnified perhaps ten times, by the gearing, so you accelerate even harder.

THIS is why at low speed, the throttle feels so sensitive.

As speed increases, so does drag, and THAT damps the acceleration, because more of the extra force being made is having to be used to overcome the added drag, and isn't available for acceleration.

As you go faster, so you will change gear. Each gear will probably halve the reduction ratio or the force multiplication the gears provide, so each gear you get half as much force at the wheel as you have at the crank-shaft for the same engine speed and throttle opening. Further damping the throttle 'response'.

So it isn't that the throttle is 'sensitive' in that initial travel, it is simply that in the balence of forces its influencing, it has a much bigger effect that at higher speeds... its ACTUALLY directly controilling a very SMALL amount of air flow, and THAT is effecting only a very small amount of change in force at the piston tops....

But THAT is the science, and it doesn't make a jot of difference whether we are talking about a 12bhp CBF125, four stroke, a 25bhp two stroke NSR, a 45bhp four stroke GS500 or a GSXR-1300 Hyabusa.... same 'effect' is in existance, and at slow speeds, the excess of pottential power the engine could make, sitting against the power actually needed to move at just a couple of MPH, controlled by something that has barely an inch of travel.... means it will ALWAYS be a bit sensitive'

And I dont know if you are a car driver, but something car drivers often have problem with, becouse they are used to vehicles that have engines with reletively narrow rev ranges, and very shallow power curves, and proportionaly an awful lot more mass, to 'damp' out the interplay and slow it all down right from the start.

I suspect, that the CBF's super economy, emission mapped fuel injection, might also be accentuating things a little; at tick-over the EFi is probably 'mapped' incredibly weak, to keep emmissions low and fuel consumption down.... and there is probably a bit of a 'glitch' in the engine management maps 'brain', a bit of 'lag' where it tries to make up its mind whether the bikes being revved 'off-load' or being put 'on-load' and what fueling map to use.... but that shouldn't be a very 'big' influence.

And yes, clutch slipping and brake dragging can be used to smooth slow riding and launch technique..... BUT..... the fundemental, skill here is throttle control, and key to that is understanding what the throttle is actually doing, and learning to use it smoothly and get it delivering 'just' the force you want, when you want.

which means realising that its an 'indirect' control, and learning to use the 'lag' effects to your advantage, and only using clutch slipping and brake dragging to 'finesse' the control you have, when its most needed, rather than to compensate for never 'quite' mastering the throttle.

Riding motorbikes? Most of it is just a matter of sitting on the damn thing and not falling off. Its not hard, and once moving, bike does most of the balancing for you, and in fact faster you go, more balancing it does; ought to be a piece of cake.....

But 90% of REALLY riding a bike is on the throttle.

And its a skill that is best mastered, not got around......

Thirty years in trials, and I'm still trying to 'master' it......
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[delsol]

Teflon-Mike's reply just blew me away, he just went full thingummy again (forgot the word - someone remind me please), brilliant, love this site.

Tef

[mcfcbiker]

Mike, you are without a doubt 'The Man' when it comes to explaining things

I went to work on my bike for the first time today which was rather scary (only got it yesterday) and after reading the OP's post I went a different way home and went a way which would have traffic so I could see what I was like slow controlling.

I used the clutch and brake method as described here and it worked, I was sailing smoothly at slow speeds in the line of cars and only ever so often did the 'lurching' happen.

I will try it again only using the throttle and use your method next time.
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Current Bike = 2011 Triumph Street Triple R
Previous Bikes = Yamaha YBR 125, Honda CBF 125, SYM XS 125K

[Teflon-Mike]

Teaching Newbies slow riding on the play-ground, 'trick' I often used to use was to get them to launch, and ride a couple of circuits, then tell them when I flagged them to slow down and try and keep pace with me, running besides them (in the days, NOT long ago, I COULD actually 'run'!)... then I would slow to a trot, then a brisk walk, and then a normal walking pace.... bringing them down 'incrementally' to litterally a crawl.....

Its far easier to get the hang of slow riding that way.

Problem with launch technique is its a transient state, in two situations.

At rest, you are stationary, not moving, engine off load providing no motion. YOU the rider are also propping the bike up, with your legs.

'Riding' engine is on load, making motion, driving the bike along at a certain speed. And you the rider, are sat on the thing, feet up on the pegs, the biuke balenced on a knife edge of two skinny rings or rubber.

Reason it doesn't fall over are numerouse; main one is actually auto-stability. Newton's laws a body in motion will remain in motion, until convinced to change its 'attitude' by an imposed force.

Gravity, is the one we are worried about, but more the greater influence of gravity on one side of the bike to the other, that makes it fall over; and that small force difference is often quite 'tiny' in the tug of war.... I mean you can balence a 50Kg concrete slab on its edge with finger tip force, dont take much more to balence a bike....

Not many forces actually in play; you have 'thrust' at the back wheel pushing you along, for the moment in a straight line, and THAT alone is actually providing most of your 'balence'... its shoving you 'straight' and its 'shove' is actually pretty big in relation to all else, so in the tangled tug-of war of forces that's going on, its the one most likely to win, most often... hence staying 'upright' and going straight ahead is the 'preffered' direction of motion.

'Gyroscopic Stability'... often talked about, the wheels acting as gyroscopes, which when spinning have an incredible resistance to changing 'attitude', and far greater resistive force the faster they spin....

This is a 'significant' and aiding effect, but wheels, well, 17" wheel on a motorbike at 60miles an hour is only spinning at around 100RPM; at higher speeds gyroscopic stability can be quite signitificant, but at lower speeds, simple auto-stability is probably the greater contribution.

NOT that it really matters.... basically once you have a bike moving, it balences itself, faster you go more balence it has.... doesn't really matter where it comes from..... just that it does come from somewhere!

Gets more important, where stability comes from when you start looking at cornering, but we are a LONG way from dealing with that yet!

SO... stationary, you are sat on the bike, its not moving and you, the rider are propping it up with your legs.....

On the move, bike stays up by whatever mystical forces stop it falling over, and you can sit there, feet on the pegs quite happy you dont need to do anything to stop it falling over.

Launching, is the first skill to really learn, and to understand in riding a motorbike, because it's getting the bike from one state, to the other.... stopping..... well, thats the same thing backwards!

And there is a LOT to deal with launching a motorbike.

We have this interplay between clutch and throttle to get 'thrust' to the back wheel, and get the thing moving.

But at the same time, as the bike starts moving, it gets its auto stability, and unless you like footpeg bruised calves..... you better get your feet up off the ground and out the way a bit sharpish!

Which means that you HAVE to rely on the bikes auto-stability to prop you up, becouse you dont have your feet on teh floor to male it easy for you.... BUYT becouse you are only JUST moving, bike doesn't have very much auto-stability and barely balences you, so YOU still have to do a bit of wiggling to keep the bike upright beneath you...... and as you shift your legs around, and move weight to get feet on the pegs, that can mean a LOT of wiggling.....

and it's as often THAT bit of the launch that vexes people, becouse until they are 'balenced' they dont feel confident going faster.... but until they are going faster, they WONT get the balence....

And we have the 'Newbie Paddle'....... dabbing feet down as they pull away, or come to rest.

THIS is where I get on my soap box as an instructoir and start drilling; yelling such profanities as "You ent at the bludy beach! Stop PADDLING"

Moving; feet on the pegs. Not moving, feet on the floor. There is NO in between, you are either moving or your not; So moving feet up, not moving feet down.

Not strictly true, and its do as I say, not as I do, because I often 'track-stand' the bike, 'feet up' stationary at junctions.....

AND bit of play-ground gymnastics I often gave as an 'excersize. Try it:

Sitting a bike 'stationary' and feet-up, is called track-standing; comes from racing push bikes, and the board track velodromes, where the bicycles have fixed gears, and the CRAZY cyclists...

...they MUST be mad.... if they had ANY sense they would use an ENGINE... I blame the endorphins... but there you go!

Anyway they TIE their feet to the pedals!

This really doesn't sound like a very clever idea to me on a vehicel with two wheels that naturally will try and fall over, BUT they do, becouse they reckon it means they can put more force to the pedal.... like I said, if they had any sense, they could get a heck of a lot more force from an engine... but for some reason they preffer the endorphins.....

Consequently, 'at the track' when they have thier feet tied to the pedals, on the start line, they have to hold thier bike up on shear 'balence', though with fixed gear they often aid it a bit with some auto-stability rocking the bike backwards and forewards.... another anomoly, they can pedal backwards.... I TOLD you they were crazy!

Any-how; THAT is where the term comes from; standing a bike like a 'track' cyclist. And they do it an awful lot in trials riding these days, and they actually have even pure track standing competitions!

Personally I have never won any; I'm not THAT good, BUT, I can track-stand my trials bike, AND start it on the kickstart... provided I dont actually THINK about what I am doing!

Anyway, back to the plot; the track stand. Balencing a stationary bike, purely on 'balence'. No foot to prop you up, no motion to give you auto-stability, just you, balencing a bike.

TRY IT.

Sit your bike. propping it up, naturally, foot on teh floor either side.

Now, just lift BOTH feet together... only an inch or so... Dont worry about putting them on the pegs, just yet... just lift feet slightly off the floor....

SEE... takes AGES before you actually start toppling, doesn't it....

OK.... now lets try again.... this time put your feet closer together, JUST infront of teh footpags.... yoru riding a motorbike, not a horse, no need to have your legs splayed wide.

Now lift BOTH feet together.... gently, and let them hovver....

And again... bit higher this time......

And again.. but THIS time DONT LOOK at them..... keep your eyes straight ahead.....

OK.... try again..... now look down. Where are/were your feet? ALMOST level with teh foot-pegs, right.

OK... so you have learned that it DOESN'T take much to balence a bike, AND you dont have to move your feet THAT much, and you dont HAVE to be moving to hold it up straight....

So; now try again; feet nice and loose on the floor; and lift BOTH to the pegs together, and back down again...

Lets try that again.... hold feet up a little longer this time.....

And OK, you might not be able to hold the bike up, on balence for the hours on end of a trials track-stand marathon-star, BUT, you CAN hold the bike up without wobbling TOO much, and you COULD do that BEFORE you start moving.

At which point I give exagerated demo; putting bike in gear, putting feet on floor, lifting feet smartly onto pegs, then PAUSING before reving the engine and releasing the clutch to get it moving.

NO PADDLING!

Of course you have to be a bit 'good' at your launch to do it smartly, or you fall over before you get moving, and any clumsiness in your clutch/throttle makes you wobble and upsets the balence you have aquired.

BUT, point is, for 'tidy' riding, feet up, bike balenced before or as soon as you are moving. No flopping feet. Becouse THAT and waving your legs around trying to get them on the peg is all effecting your balence when you have least stability provided by the bike, and gives you more competing forces in your tangles tug-of war, in this transient state from startionary to moving.

Be NEAT with your FEET.

Crack that one, and you are half way there. ALL basic stuff, but important, and useful.

OK, onto throttle control and slow riding.

First of all, stop start traffic issn't really the best place to practice fine throttle control and slow riding., It IS where it will be used most often, BUT.

Moving, steady state, constant speed, reasonably straight line, with few changes; ought to be a doddle; bikes momuntum holding you up, all you have to do is sit there, relax enjoy the scenary watch for bends, and idiots trying to kill you.....

Stationary; another doddle. You are sat there, feet down, propping bike up, all nice and stable, and nothing ought to change until you decidce to change it.

The 'transient' phase of launching or stopping is where it gets compicated, where there is a LOT going on, and a lot of forces in this tangled tug or war, and balence shifts from bike to you or vice versa.

And its in THAT transision that the pottential for error is greatest.

More people fall off pulling away or stopping, than do come off on corners or ride into things.

And NEAT FEET is your key to success. Get them up and out the way early, and DONT stick them down until you are SURE you are stopped, annd when you do, do it confidently and definitely and take the weight on them straight away. DONT pussy foot.

So if we can AVOID stops or starts, thats good, it avoids a 'hazard' situation.

In Stop-Start traffic; far 'better' than actually stopping and starting, is to try and 'trickle and damp', giving yourself a cars length oir so between you and lead vehicle, and instead of riding on its bumper, a slave to its brake lights, stopping and starting when it does.... look over the top, watch the traffic and use that bit of space you make yourself to 'trickle' slowly and keep moving NOT putting your feet down so often. Only takes a cars length, and letting that gap grow and shring infront of you, while you hold a slow constant speed, means you keep moving, avoiding unnecessary transient phases, and opportunity for mis fotting or mis launching.

BUT.... stop start traffic is a NATUTRAL hazard situation to begin with..... any traffic is some kind of hazard, but snarled stop start particularly bad, and in town, worse, with people suddenly deciding to pull out, do U-Turns, stop to pick up pedestrians, pedestrians that decide to walk accfross the road becouse traffic isn't moving, etc etc etc.

This is NOT a good enviroment to be trying to 'learn' teh skill of slow riding or throttle control, its where to exploit that skill once you have it.

SO.... to start developing good throttle control, and learning the bvasics of slow riding, lets go a bit faster.....

Lets find some country lanes. Nice quiet ones, for preference, wider the better, but no problem if they aren't; what we want is corners, and a reasonable abscence of other traffic so we can go as fast or as slow as we want anr ride our own road not be influenced by other traffic.

OK. Twisty country road; probably unclassified where the 60mph Nastional Speed Limit applies, we COULD hurtle down it at 60 if we wanted, but more reasonably, given the number of corners and how tight they are, and hedges obscuring sight lines, we probably dont want to do much more than 30-40mph.

So, we are going to set 30mph as our 'target' speed, and what we are going to do is try and ride this bit of road, at 30, withoout using the brakes....

Remember what I said earlier; fuel is energy? Well, every time you accelerate you burn fuel to make force and accelerate. That energy becomes 'Kinetic Energy' of the energy of motion; every time you BRAKE you DUMP that kinetic energy into the air around you as heat generated through friction between brake pad and disc.

Braking robs fuel! One reason for not doing it. Also wears out brake pads. ALSO generates braking forces, loading steering suspenbsion and tyres.

Braking and acceleration, create another competing set of tug-of-war forces, and they aren't always that helpful; and they waste fuel, waste brake pads, waste tyres and wear out suspension and steering and 'stuff' putting more wear and tear on your machine.

Riding SMOOTHLY is a tripple bonus. Doesn't impoise such big forces, so you save fuel, you save maintenence making your riding cheaper, and easier to live with, but more, riding smoothly, using ionly the amount of acceleration you need, and the braking you HAVE to, you will almost always get from start to finish in less time, holding a higher average speed, but you will ALSO be riding a LOT more safely, with a LOT more 'margin for error' saving braking effort and tyre grip for when you REALLY need it, rather than relying on it JUST to get you round a corner you have entered 'too fast' to begin with, and have to accelerate harder OUT of having had to scfrubb off so much speed just to get round it....

KEY is THROTTLE CONTROL........ old mantra, 'your first brake is your 'third brake'....

You have two 'obviouse brakes; front brake, and back brake, but....

When you want to slow down, firs thing you do is relax your grip on the throttle, spring in the throttle snaps the throttle shut, closing flow of air into the engine. Engine is now sucking against a closed door, creating a vacuum, and isn't making any motive force, and it will actually be taking energy from the back wheel to keep it turning at all, with no fuel & air to do so.... this is ENGINE BRAKING

So, your first brake is your thirs brake, or engine braking.... SO, lets try riding this biot of road JUST using engine braking to slow down, when we want to.

KEY is observation, and guaging distances, PLANNING your ride, and adjusting speed for corners well ahead of time, so that you arrive A?T the corner at the speed you want to go around it. You can then apply just a little bit of throttle to accelerate round, and out of the bend, and start planning the next one.

Sounds dangerouse, doesn't it? Well, it is and it isn't. When I was a learner, My instructor decided to play this game with me, and he actually stopped in a lay-by and made me check my brake lamp and switch, becouse he reckoned the bulb must have gone or the switch was out of adjustment..... actually, I'd played the game before..... but anyway! Had a number of cuckle moments in years since, when riding buddies have told me I ought to check my tail lamp bulb or brake light switch, becouse on a twisty road, it wasn't coming on,m during what they considered 'spririted' riding.....

Thing is its not a 'ban' you can still use the brakes, just try not to, unless you are actually coming to a halt, or in an emergency.

First of all, you will be surprised that you CAN with a little planning, adjust speed quite carefully only on the throttle.... and THIS is where you start developing finer throttle control for slow riding.....

Next you learn that actually motorbikes WILL go round corners a LOT faster than you believed, and with a lot less drama.....

Lastly, you learn that not geting into a tussle of competing forces, relying so heavily on the brakes, its ACTUALLY a lot easier to ride! Means you are doing less work, means its more fun, more relaxed, and you have more attension to give to other things, which could be the scenary, could be hazard watching, could be going faster.... up to you, all I offer is the tools.... how you choose to use them, if at all, is your call!

So, find a nice bit of road you can have a crack at this excersize on; try it and count the number of times you have to use the brakes. Ride it again the other way, do likewise. Then keep score. Every time you use more brakes you get a minus mark, every time you use less, you get a plus mark. Try and beat your own score each time.

When that's getting boring; time it. If you do the trip faster, you win, but only if you dont exceed your brake quota...

Its a good way to start aquiring a 'predictive-progressive' riding style, or as I call it, cool riding. Least effort, maximum effect!

That helps develop the throttle control, and breaks brake dependancy. So next back to slow riding.

It WONT all come in one day; but remember, neat feet, and the launch, and that its easier to go slow coming down from speed than to go slow from a dead stop.

Quiet industrial estates out of business hours tend to be a good place for this kind of practice, or empty municipal or retail park car-parks.

Can get quite tedius, simply trying to ride as slowly as you can, so mix it up a bit, and give yourself some excersizes.

the cross points of empty carparking bay lines make good cone substitutes, but they can be a bit close together to weave through easily..... but try it.

Bet you weaved, didn't you, and you went between the cross points fine with the front wheel, but the back wheel was riding over them......

OK, try 'stitching': instead of weaving from left to right, following the white line between the two rows of parking bays...... ride across it, at rioght angles between the cross points.... then do a wide loop and cross it again past the next one..... driving through each of the bays....

NOW you are getting through those 'gates' a lot more easily and not knocking over imaginary cones with your back wheel.... OK, now try stityching witin the bays....

Thats quite a tight turn isn't it? But, actually, weren't you quite stunned at how far over the bike would lean at such a slow speed to do it?

We are NOW up to a point where we are developing fine throttle control, using acceleration to help balence the bike, and doing quite tight U-Turns, and mimicking not just U-Turns but tight turns like exiting a junction.....

And you HAVE to do it slowly....

And I have NOT at any point tought any one 'tricks' like clitch slipping or back brake dragging.......

JUST simple basic machine balence and throttle control......

OK... stop start traffic...... still in the car-park/industrial estate..... use them bay markings or unit entrances as marker points, and accelerate up to 30mph.... roll off the throttle and down to walking pace.... then back up to 10mph, back down to walking pace, and then a stop; clear concise foot down stop.... remember NEAT FEET..... and start again..... up to 10mph, and imedietly off the throttle back to walking pace..... up to 15, and a gear change to 20, and back down to walking pace...... get the idea?

OK, carry on, BUT, do some 'stops'... I want you to count to twenty between feet down and feet up starting again, for the first few.... but I want you to reduce that delay until you are 'just' stopping for 'one-two' and go again... BUT I want those neat-feet precicely down when you stop, and smartly 'up' when you go.

NOW, try a momentary track stand.... come to a halt, and JUST hold the bike up on balence, until you dont feel you can hold it, THEN go..... all feet up.

Dont worry if you dont 'actually' stop, or if your co-ordination is a bit out and you have to 'dab' a foot down. This isn't a comp-trial, no one is scoring you but you....

BUT keep practicing, and you OUGHT to be able to get smooth enough that you can stop-start, feet up, and hold the bike 'track stand' between the two, for a count of 'one-two' between stop and start, if not longer.

And you'll FIND that smoother you are slowing, the less engine or wheel brake you use the easier it will be.... the smoother you are on the throttle, easier it will become.... becouse using small, gentle control inputs, you are minimising that tug of war tangle going on around you......

And THAT is basically ALL there is to 'good' riding... managing those forces governing your balence and motion, BASICALLY by keeping them as few and small as possible.....

Big dramatic riding; hard on the throttle, hard on the brakes, hard lean into a corner..... looks impressive, but seldom effective.

And the really dramatic riding of the stunt rider, comp-trials ace, or GP Hero?

All taking the idea of minimising number and magnitude of forces to another level.... you watch stunt riders, there is hardly a heavy handed or brutal control input in anything they do..... BUT effect is FAR more impressive than the effort to get it.

COOL RIDING

Minimum Effort, Maximum effect....

And all starts with basics of balence and throttle control...... how far you want to take it after that, entirely up to you.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[hotmud]

Hello Mike, please to meet you! Can I say that your replies are quite possible the most comprehensive I have ever received on any forum ever

Very informative stuff. I'm quite a sciency/technical guy myself and I have found that understanding the forces involved has helped my riding greatly as a noob. Probably the best one being the concept of auto-stability (via newton's law of motion), and having the confidence to get the bike up to speed and stable smoothly, letting it naturally do its thing without panicking or trying to over-controll it.

NEAT FEET is a very sensible bit of advice.

BTW I understand the general principals of how an engine works which you explained very eloquently (the throttle controls the air flow, it's not like a big variable resistor connected to an electric motor directly controlling its speed), however I'm still unsure whether it's physically connected or 'fly-by-wire' like most modern cars?

Anyway, the one phrase that jumped out at me was this:

'Engine is now sucking against a closed door, creating a vacuum'

At tickover will there be a pressure gradient across the intake valve? This might explain the sensitivity of the throttle response when taking off if there is a small vacuum there trying to equalise itself for the first few moments??

This would make sense if the idle speed is controlled by a secondary, smaller air intake - I have no idea if this is the case, just guessing!???

[Teflon-Mike]

[Rogerborg]

[hotmud]

thanks again for all the info - best if I think less and ride more Haven't had a chance to get out since posting, so will give all the tips a try today with any luck.