Should the UK quit the EU

[Andy_Pagin]

What does BCF think?
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[felicity]

Neither option describes my opinion. I want more of the same EU, not a reformed one; the eventual goal of the EU should be a US-style federation.

However I do think the government needs to make much more of an effort to involve UK citizens in the EU legislative process.

[N cee thirty]

keep in with all the trading etc

but stop all this fvcking power trip rule changes from people that have never stepped foot in to an industry.
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Jewlio Iglesias wrote: I actually did vote BNP once

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Mushroom]

The EU is an anti-capitalist nation state & industry cannibal.

[mistergixer]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[dodgydog]

[Mushroom]

[Im-a-Ridah]

Better off out

There's not much to debate here really.

Either way, it must be put to the vote.

[Rogerborg]

[LeeR]

[Rogerborg]

[LeeR]

Quite, I see your point and as soon as I posted it I thought you might question what I meant.

I realise the USA is perhaps a very poor example, what I meant to say is that the EU and particularly the single currency can't operate successfully without a central financial policy made by the European parliament. I realise that the economic circumstances Europe and the US now find themselves in are more to do with the failure of capitalism, stupidity and greed than they are with the failures of federalism.

I think at the heart of my argument is the feeling that the EU/Euro will only be a success when managed centrally and I know that most of the member states (and their citizens) probably don't want that level of commitment or removal of sovereign power.

The problem with the EU as I see it is that it has become more than intended (unless this was the German-French post-war intent) and most of the member states are fairly half-arsed in their commitment to it. They want what's good for themselves and little or nothing of what they perceive to be bad for them.

If we had the situation today in a federalist Europe we wouldn't be talking about Greece defaulting on it's debts, IMF intervention, or credit downgrading for many states. The debt would be a wholly European debt and the support the member states need would be a mere internal re-distribution (and you'd hope the situation wouldn't have occurred in the first place, but I doubt that).

I appreciate there's a bigger picture and that there are issues we aren't covering that also effect the situation, such as unified tax collection (VAT, PAYE etc...) which some member states perform more effectively than others, but a federal administration would have (hopefully) enforced this equally across all states.

As to whether the UK should remain a member I'm beginning to think we shouldn't. I've often said I'd like us to either be at the heart of Europe making it's legislation or out, we can't go on as we are.

I hate to admit it but I think the experiment has failed, yes a war within Europe has been prevented, but this piece-meal money pit suits no one in the long term.

All or nothing is my point.

As an aside the Swiss are so enlightened they didn't give women the vote until 1974, but then there are people who say that's no bad thing.
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[unitynotsocri...]

One of the few advantages Britain has is that at least we have our own currency and so our financial accounts can be fiddled by us and us alone (with major frauds/fiddles etc kept between us and america),and we speak english,

If you want to know what the frechies think of us try and comprehend why they built their refugee camp next to the ferry port,backstabbing surrender monkies.looking at the euro as a currency it seems that the main strength of it is germany and the nordic nations, france and Italy only joined the euro scheme so they could fudge their debts rather than have a civil revolution. I think what happend in Britain in the early 80's economically is about to happen in Italy and france,forget Greece.

I hope germany goes back to the mark,taking the east and northern european eec members with them and france and italy and spain get left holding the baby.
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[Rogerborg]

[Nick__C]

[Rogerborg]

[Andy_Pagin]

So far this poll's been viewed 419 times yet only 44 people have voted, I suppose that somewhat reflects the indifference most people have to the EU which is frightening really.

That's like only 5million of fhe UKs' 50 million adults bothering to vote in a referendum, which would leave it null & void.
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They're coming to take me away, ho-ho, hee-hee, ha-haaa, hey-hey,
the men in white coats are coming to take me away.
Yamaha Vity -> YBR125 -> FZS600 Fazer -> FZ1-S Fazer

[Raffles]

Wellingborough MP Peter Bone has just finished the ''debate'' by saying: 'There is a rule in this House that when the three party leaders agree on something, then it must be wrong'.
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A good loser will always be a loser.

[Raffles]

The result is in:-

The government has won the vote with a majority of 372.
One hundred and eleven MPs voted yes for the referendum, while 483 voted against it.

What a surprise.
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A good loser will always be a loser.

[Im-a-Ridah]

[Rogerborg]

[fatpies]

[Rogerborg]

I'm actually prepared to believe that this is one of the very few issues that some MPs do genuinely care about. For one thing, the group of 6 biking MPs who joined in the September MAG protest.
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