Brake lever to bar overnight

[HD]

Firstly, how long do you leave it? One night, two, a week? Time is pretty much unlimited so how long do you reckon, as I like my brake quite spongy.

Also, do you leave the cap on or off?



Also, I need to machine a part that keeps my brake reservoir vertical. At the mo it is bolted onto the bar brace and is leaning back.

Look at the paint diagram I attached and you will see what I mean. It is leaning and I need to machine a part like I put on bottom to make it upright. But how do I machine a part so small?

Welding isn't an option as the welder in school is so shit and I don't have access to another welder. Other machines I should be able to use.

Any ideas?
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[Conon]

Nice paint diagram!

I assume you're tying the brake lever to the handlebar to bleed air bubbles out the line. Overnight will do it, leave the reservoir cap in place. Why the hell would you want your brake spongy? If thats how you want it, dont bother bleeding it.

[HD]

Ideal, I left the cap on.

And not full on spongy, just like some feel there instead of 'nothing.... nothing.... nothing.... over the bars!'


____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[salty21]

i thought i was alone in my spongey brake preference.

sharp brakes are far more dangerous than spongey ones IMO
____________________
04 NSR 125(sold) ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold) ----90 pan euro ST1100 '' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr

[HD]

Definitely. I rode a wr250 with a sharp brake.

The front just kept locking up so on the road it would have been deadly.

SPONGEY FRIENDS!
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[MarJay]

I think this thread gets the "MarJay's Wierd thread of the month" award.

First off, and most importantly it seems all of the posters in this thread so far are confusing 'sponginess' with 'feel'. It is perfectly possible to have a brake system with loads of power and bite, but no feel. My TZR250 was like this when I replaced the brake caliper with a blue spot sumitomo from an R1. It was a good brake, but it was impossible to modulate, which is why the new owner reverted to the original TZR caliper. My Buell on the other hand had lots of power AND good 'feel'. The lever had movement that allowed you to sense what the brake was doing, but none of the movement was wasted. With a spongy brake system, you brake but the sponginess takes up some of the movement, which means some of the lever travel is wasted. This is not the case on a good system with lots of feel. My Daytona 955i brake system was spongy, and it was hard to modulate the braking pressure, and it was also difficult to get full power out of it without pulling the lever right back to the bar. This is a bad thing.

You can't easily adjust an existing system to add 'feel'. You can however ruin a perfectly good braking system by making it spongey. Despite this, tying the brake lever back to the bar is a good way of removing some of the sponginess from a hydraulic system... which seems to fly in the face of what the OP is saying!

Ironically, it seems that one of the ways to reduce the feel of a system is to fit braided hoses which a lot of people say improves the brakes on any bike. This is only generally the case if the bike's original rubber hoses are knackered. Otherwise most manufacturers would fit them as standard. AFAIK only Triumph fit braided hoses as standard, and this is probably due to the sealing issues they've previously had with their hydraulic systems.

My guess is there is an optimum hydraulic ratio for perfect 'feel' in a brake system, however its such a fine line that some manufacturers get it wrong. I guess its better to err on the side of having loads of power and no feel than it is to have the lever coming back to the bar... Plus the whole question of feel is quite subjective. Some people love having loads of bite and no feel on their brakes.

There is no easy answer to the question of the perfect brake feel through the hydraulic system, but certainly deliberately making a braking system spongey is not a good idea.
____________________
British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[HD]

Maybe I am getting confused. I like the lever to have lots of movement.

So from when it starts biting, I like it to have maybe another 2cm before I am at pretty much full braking. Thats on the Derbi anyway.

The bandit does actually have stainless hoses and haven't tested the brakes yet but bled them earlier and the lever still goes back to the bar and you can just about push it when the lever is in. Really have to push it but can just about.

Hoping leaving it overnight will sort it
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[Beelzebob]

To be honest mate that sounds like they're not bled properly, having the lever all the way in but still push the bike.

I would try bleeding again first.
____________________
'09 YBR 125 -> '92 XJ600 S Diversion -> '99 Hornet 600

"Stronger than your average female lifeguard"

[HD]

I have bled them for 5 mins at least for each calliper with no more bubbles emerging and a clear stream of fluid.

This happened with the Derbi as well and I tied the lever over night and then it was fine the next day.

They have been totally stripped though so maybe there are still some air pockets within the callipers?

I did it the way I have seen online and double checked in the other thread I made...
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[virus]

[HD]

There is pretty much no resistance though. So if im applying pressure, then crack the banjo, my lever is already at the bars.

Cheers for the tip though, I'll try it next time.

Hopefully this will sort it though.


I'll update you all tomorrow
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[HD]

Lever to bar didnt work so I did what you said virus. Worked straight away!

Still quite spongy though so gonna strap it to the bar for a couple of days and see what comes of it.

Need to get some more brake fluid as I am out and need some to do the back brake anyway so will bleed again if it does nothing to get literally everything out. Ill do it for like 20 mins.

Thanks for the help though!
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[totalllama82]

I went through this stuff on my Thundercat. I bled about 10 litres of brake fluid through that bike!

I rebuilt the MC Seals, overhauled the calipers, put braded lines in, replaced brake lever

I finally got some feel from it. Ultimately the problem was my hoses were pumped.

Anyway. I found the tieing the handle back worked for a couple of days and went back to normal. The rationale was that the air bubbles were compressed in the system when the tiewrap was in place and when it was removed, they expanded again.

As folks have said bleed at the MC banjo but in reality its a pain in the ass. Vaccum bleeding and reverse bleeding were my next port of calls but i never got that far after the hoses revelation.
____________________
Gone: Haotian HT125-8 / Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat / Kawasaki ZX9R C2
Current: Kawasaki ZZR 1400 A7F

[HD]

What you mean pumped?

Im thinking m/c seals next as there is quite a bit of pressure there but you can pull it from all the way out to the bar and it doesn't increase in pressure.

But you shouldn't be able to pull it all the way in!
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[totalllama82]

[totalllama82]

If I had my chance at diagnosing the issue again i'd personally use the following order of diagnosis.

1. Regular bleed.
2. Vaccum or injection bleed (yes this takes some improvisation if your like me with an extended ikea toolkit).
3. Clean calipers which means pump the pistons out and clean the dirty ring around their natural settling point (kinda like your neck after a dirty day)
4. MC Rebuild.
5. Replace hoses with NEW** (no 2nd hand rubber crap from ebay) rubber or HEL/Goodridge lines.
6. Full caliper rebuild. I.e. piston, dust seals and then any bleed nipple or slide bolt rubbers. Dodgy dust seals CAN actually cause spongyness too.

Another thing is your method of bleeding. Cracking the MC banjo then each caliper is the best bet. Then finish with another round at the MC and then calipers. Air will always rise (and normally gather at the mc banjo) so cracking that the next day and doing yet more bleeding might help. This is of course for regular bleeding I have no experience of vaccum or reverse bleeding.

Finally I also had the added randomness of the Yamaha bluespot calipers with a link pipe. After many drunk nights googling, the linkpipe seemed to cause endless trouble with air bubbles.


What bike to you have? What braking setup does it use? Pics? anything helps.

Ultimately I spent;

£30 Caliper seal rebuild.
£60 Braided hoses.
£20~ Brake fluid.
£15 MC rebuild.
£40 New brakepads
£10 on brake cleaner.
£15 Lever.
____________________
Gone: Haotian HT125-8 / Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat / Kawasaki ZX9R C2
Current: Kawasaki ZZR 1400 A7F

[HD]

Cleaned the callipers properly already.

Bike has stainless lines but they aren't in great shape. They were crushed behind the headlight for 2-3 years.

Whats a vacuum/injection bleed? Guessing a syringe?

MC rebuild kits are >£20 on the net :/ But the rear is like a fiver!

See where I get with this before buying new things.
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[HD]

You edited that after I wrote mine

Suzuki Bandit 400.

Setup is master cylinder in the form of a sportsbike reservoir with mc beside it. Then one hose into a splitter, then off to the callipers. Vague paint diagram below.
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[totalllama82]

[HD]

Will give that syringe idea a go.

If that doesn't work and this repeated bleeding tying lever then I'll throw some money at the master cylinder.

I do actually have a standard master cylinder setup as a spare. Reckon I should chuck that on?
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[totalllama82]

[totalllama82]

Sorry should have added, pumped is a Scottish term for something that is broken and should have been replaced

Pretty sure that in Englandshire the term is 'fooked' or something
____________________
Gone: Haotian HT125-8 / Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat / Kawasaki ZX9R C2
Current: Kawasaki ZZR 1400 A7F

[HD]

Yeah haha! Fucked or knackered

Cheers anyway

I think the right calliper is worse because when I bleed, fluid shoots out everywhere when I bleed the left one but with the left it just dribbles.

I'll try what you've suggested and report back.
____________________
Rusty '02 Vito Camper + CBR600F3

[totalllama82]

[totalllama82]

Also, www.wemoto.co.uk do rebuild kits cheaper than anyone ive found if you need MC or Caliper stuff. Ebay is best for the pipes unless you can do a deal on a HEL/Goodridge stand at a show.

Dont buy crap lines off ebay m8
____________________
Gone: Haotian HT125-8 / Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat / Kawasaki ZX9R C2
Current: Kawasaki ZZR 1400 A7F