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Drivers may be presumed liable if a child is hit

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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Drivers may be presumed liable if a child is hit Reply with quote
Hi

Fancy being held automatically liable should you hit a kid?

Should give those ones who think it is fun to play chicken an extra incentive to try and get run over.

https://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,175-1256235,00.html

Quote:
DRIVERS who knock down children should have to pay compensation even if the victim ran out without looking, according to a report commissioned by the Government.

The motorist would be assumed to be responsible in civil proceedings for any collision involving a child in a residential area. Bereaved parents could claim compensation from the driver?s insurers and he would lose any no-claims bonus.

The driver could avoid being held responsible only if he could prove that he had taken every reasonable step to avoid the collision.

Complying with the speed limit would not be a sufficient defence because the driver should have realised that there was a possibility of a child running out and reduced his speed accordingly.

Britain has the best overall road safety record in Europe but one of the highest death rates for child pedestrians. In 2002, 79 pedestrians aged under 16 were killed and 2,800 seriously injured.

The Department for Transport commissioned a group of academics to study road safety policy in other European countries and identify any measures that might save children?s lives.

The study found that the two countries with the lowest child pedestrian death rates, Sweden and the Netherlands, had laws that assumed the driver to be responsible in collisions with children. Germany, which had the fourth lowest rate, had a similar law.

The study recommended that the Government should consider introducing the same principle into English law.

Nicola Christie, senior researcher in public health at Surrey University and the lead author of the study, said: ?While it goes against the grain to assume guilt unless it is proven, this law could help to reduce deaths and injuries because drivers would be more careful.?

The Dutch law was set in 1988 in a case involving a 13-year-old girl who cycled suddenly out of a side road and was hit and seriously injured by a car that had priority on a main road. The Dutch Supreme Court ruled that children under 14 could not be expected to observe traffic rules and ordered the driver to pay all the damages and costs.

Willem Vermeulen, safety researcher at the Dutch Traffic Department, said: ?This law has had a psychological effect in making drivers more aware of the vulnerability of children. If they see a ball bounce into the road they have to assume that a child will run out after it. They know that if they hit a child, practically the only excuse accepted is that the child voluntarily threw itself under the car.?

Mr Vermeulen said that the law had initally been met with furious protests by Dutch motorists. ?But our society has now widely accepted that drivers need an extra burden because of their powerful position in traffic. The current debate is whether to extend the law to children over 14.?

Zoe Stow, head of RoadPeace, the charity that supports those bereaved and injured by road crashes, said that too many drivers were able to escape responsibility for collisions because of the lack of witnesses: ?The driver can easily blame the child because the child may be dead and unable to defend itself. We need to change the burden of proof so that fewer drivers get off scot-free.?

Rob Gifford, director of the Parliamentary Advisory Council for Transport Safety, said: ?Some drivers may be forced to pay out when there was no fault at all on their part. But that is an acceptable price to pay for civilising our streets.?

Andrew Howard, the AA?s head of road safety, said that the law would push up every motorist?s insurance costs but he doubted it would do much to change drivers? attitudes.

A DfT spokesman said: ?We will consider this, but it would require quite a radical shift in the law.?


Surely having the safest roads except for pedestrian accidents tends to suggest that we have the most dangerous pedestrians.

All the best

Keith
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Phoenix
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
So if a kid runs into your car while its parked and kills themselves, do their parents get to claim off your insurance? Rolling Eyes
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tatters
Exxon Valdez



Joined: 04 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: 16:08 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The driver could avoid being held responsible only if he could prove that he had taken every reasonable step to avoid the collision.



braking so hard you low slide the bike, or crashing of the road into the pavement or wall Question
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paulthewitt
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Joined: 17 May 2004
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PostPosted: 16:14 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
absolute ludicris drivle from the government once more. of course we dont want to hit a kid and will take all precautions possible (not speeding past schools etc...)

kids are unpredictable and accidents happen. why should a motorist have to pay out if they did nothing but drive a car/bike one day, and someone ran out. not much they can do about it is there!!!

politics is really starting to tick me off. they live on some other planet, i swear Rolling Eyes

all the best
Paul
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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Phoenix wrote:
So if a kid runs into your car while its parked and kills themselves, do their parents get to claim off your insurance? Rolling Eyes


Given how badly laws get worded over here these days, should this become law then they probably could claim for running into a parked car.

CPL_redbaron wrote:
braking so hard you low slide the bike, or crashing of the road into the pavement or wall Question


Not of any relevance from the examples they have given. You should have already slowed to a halt so the Chavs can lie in the road and then mug you.

Quote:
kids are unpredictable and accidents happen. why should a motorist have to pay out if they did nothing but drive a car/bike one day, and someone ran out. not much they can do about it is there!!!


If the kid is that unpredictable then it is partly the parents / guardians fault for letting them out when they are not to be trusted.

All the best

Keith
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iCraig
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PostPosted: 16:18 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Another bloody idiotic report that cost us tax payers no doubt alot of money.

Really what they should do is bring back the green cross code to educate kids properly instead of persacuting motorists more, or actually stop kids playing in roads etc, there parents should keep an eye on there kids if they actually care about them too.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rather than this, how about we say that parents are liable for any costs involved if a child is injured in the road (in relation to whatever, even cleaning the blood off the car).

This way parents are much more likely (after the first few cases) to insure the safety of their own children; hopefully to the point they wouldn't cross the road unless there was no way they could get hit.

Obviously would have to count crossing with red lights as not part of the road as such.
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GFK
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Joined: 02 Apr 2003
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PostPosted: 17:56 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
The driver could avoid being held responsible only if he could prove that he had taken every reasonable step to avoid the collision.
Why don't the parents have to prove they "had taken every reasonable step" to avoid their kids getting run over in the first place?
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Robby
Dirty Old Man



Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well if they introduce this law...

I can see my patio getting very lumpy. They can't do anything without evidence.

Fucking kids.
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Wave2k
G's Stalker



Joined: 06 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:53 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
This is very stupid having seen kids getting knocked over 90% of the time its their fault

Middle Finger to that law
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Last edited by Wave2k on 01:33 - 13 Sep 2004; edited 1 time in total
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Davo
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PostPosted: 22:30 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Joy, i assume that means our insurance will be going up (again).

I agree to the fact that they should be teaching the green cross code to kids. I've managed 22 years and not been run over.

Quote:
The Dutch Supreme Court ruled that children under 14 could not be expected to observe traffic rules and ordered the driver to pay all the damages and costs.


If that's the case maybe they should be kept on a leash until they are responsible enough to observe traffic laws (although you'd expect common sense to apply).
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mchaggis
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Joined: 09 May 2004
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Davo wrote:

Quote:
The Dutch Supreme Court ruled that children under 14 could not be expected to observe traffic rules and ordered the driver to pay all the damages and costs.


If that's the case maybe they should be kept on a leash until they are responsible enough to observe traffic laws (although you'd expect common sense to apply).


Exactly, if they can't observe road laws which apply to all road users, then they shouldn't be using the roads. It's applied for everyone else, if a child is so unpredictable/ stupid so as to be a danger to others and themselves, keep them away from the roads.

It does say only in residential areas, so it does make some sense. It makes no sense if you're expected to crawl through roads with cars parked on in case some kamakazi chav compensation kid runs out like an idjit. And just what are you supposed to do about people who walk out in front of you on purpose?
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NSR125-Kid-UK
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PostPosted: 23:11 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
IMO, saying that in any accident between a car and a child that the driver is at fault is like saying that in any fight between a black guy and a white guy, the white guy's a racist and it's racially motivated.

Kids are stupid little sods and I slow down for 'em, but they shouldn't even be ON the road Rolling Eyes .
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: 23:40 - 12 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hooray. Another way to fuck drivers over. Thumbs Down

I'm getting sick of this 'passing the buck' nonsense. If you walk out in front of a car and get hurt, it's your own bloody fault. And it's going to be full of fraud as most insurance claims seem to be these days. Friend of mine's got 2 completely uninjured people giving it the 'whiplash' thing at the moment, cos they're lowlives that have seen a chance to get some cash.

People need to take some responsibility for their actions in life.
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mr.z
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PostPosted: 00:13 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not far away (1 minutes drive) a large main road it is not uncommon to see childern as young as 5 running accross the road COMPLETELY unsupervised..

There are "parents" out there who have absoloutely no idea or dont give the faintest shit about their kids. but when little keanu or kylie get splattered all over the road then its suddenly a travisty and the evil motorists fault? WHAT IN THE HOLY **** is going on with this country?!

These commities are full of moronic unrealistic prats with no hold on reality are becomeing a serious problem when legislation is being formed by morons who you wouldn't trust to tie their own shoe laces.


grrr grumble rant blither...
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Mr Pants!
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PostPosted: 00:36 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
A person I know hit a kid outside a school, he was only doing 20 mph and the kid came out of no where between two cars, fortunately the kid lived, although he was taken away in an abulance. The driver was in terrible shock for weeks and weeks, he did not want to drive his car any more and felt so bad about it all.

If the kid had died, there is no way on Gods good clean earth that he should have been punished for that, he was going extra slow being as cautious as possible and a stinking kid ran out from between two cars, poor guy was in a right state!
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Bendy
Mrs Sensible



Joined: 10 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: 08:34 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mr Pants! wrote:
no way on Gods good clean earth that he should have been punished for that


This is something I've always thought when it comes to accidents like that - generally the person driving will be messed up in the head for the rest of their life about it anyway, the legal stuff just adds to their pain.


Kryptix - you say that but I don't believe for a second that you'd actually feel like that if it happened. It's a very, very scary thing to have happen to you.
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Re: Drivers may be presumed liable if a child is hit Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
Quote:
...Complying with the speed limit would not be a sufficient defence because the driver should have realised that there was a possibility of a child running out and reduced his speed accordingly.

Help! Confused
A child may run out wherever I drive/ride in towns. Does this mean I shouldn't ever drive/ride again?, just in case or should I go around at 5mph Thinking
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stryker
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Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 08:51 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oh fookin great. Kids round my way love playing chicken..... well football in the roads and purposefully don't get out the way of traffic. This law would just fuel them even more! as when they see I'm not slowing down for the little shits they'll have less doubt in their mind of me hitting them.

Fantastic!
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bazza
World Chat Champion



Joined: 27 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 08:56 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm sure you'd be able to find some ambulance-chasing shyster who'd go after the local council for not putting up safety barriers in all places where kids are likely to cross the road, and/or the kids parents for contributory negligence...

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headlamp
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 09:56 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote
This would be anotner example of irresponsible legislation. It encourages the 'compensation culture' and removes from another section of society responsibility for their own actions.
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GinT
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: kids Reply with quote
Kids will be kids and in their defence, they do live in another parrallel universe where they can cross roads with their super powers and are totally protected ,in their eyes.
So as said up to a certain age responsibility has to be put on the adult, so, the rider/driver has to take care in residential areas, but more so fines ,imprisonment for parents for neglecting their children. However that will never happen because it will cost to much money to enforce parents into more control, i.e police patroling streets.
Parents with the mentality of a goldfish will now however be throwing their kids in front of cars , with the prospect of getting some compensation.
With the prospect of getting an ear bashing, I have to say........
I live in Rossendale , home to many a Biker and many a school, and I see "young men" Rolling Eyes on bikes ,going past the schools at 9am-3pm like mad bastards, so not all the fault on kids or the kamokasi lollypop man.
In fact sue the lollypop man for letting kids run loose.!!!! Laughing
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 13:18 - 13 Sep 2004    Post subject: Re: kids Reply with quote
GinT wrote:
I see "young men" Rolling Eyes on bikes ,going past the schools at 9am-3pm like mad bastards

Surely the kids are in School during these times, so shouldn't be a problem Razz.
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