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Our future for the next 1000 years

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SoND
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 17 Nov 2011    Post subject: Our future for the next 1000 years Reply with quote

I’m going to let my brain take a bit of a dump here on the general topic of whatever.

Over the past 100ish years things have changed, incredibly, astrofuckingnomially and we’re currently in the middle of a transition but to where? I’ve noticed that real long term plans are very missing in anything I’ve heard from the government or just people, I’m not sure if anyone cares or understands what is happening. Civilisations in the past never cared very much or were even able to cope with large numbers, some may have been able to understand the concept of the number One Billion but the size of it would have been obscene and totally unnecessary. In the past century we have discovered some astounding facts about who we are, where we came from and where we can potentially go. One of these facts is very interesting, very mundane and has never been appreciated by anyone before us and that is time and cosmological timescales. Imagine telling someone 500 years ago that Earth isn’t thousands of years old, not even tens of thousands, millions, hundreds of millions but several billion years. I can’t get my head around that number, a thousand years is a snapshot on that scale. I bet they weren’t thinking about time by the million years.

They weren’t able to worry about the things we do today nor did they have to, things have changed and we have to change to suit. Our beds were being laid for us with the industrial revolution, everything has grown, our population and use of resources especially. Corporations have survived for longer than any single human and have practically become an entity in of themselves. They raise us from cradle to grave with the accumulation of effort and knowhow (+resources) of our grandparents and their grandparents. However from the beginning of this revolution we have since learned that time goes on for a lot longer than anticipated, resources are a lot more finite and we have developed the ability to, if we wanted to, literally melt 95% of the (seemingly-impossibly) huge population we see today in a timeframe of days.

The corporations are our parents. They’ve made the world what it is today and will be responsible for where we go in the future. They’re responsible for the structure of our daily lives, they provide the jobs and services to keep people busy, they give us the comfort of our homes, and they feed and water us. Without the organisational structure of these entities we would be lost in our modern world. Without us there would be no them.

Automation has released countless humans from their duties on the production line. This has fucked us and we’re still feeling it. Things were easy before, you got a job at the local mine/farm/factory/trade and this was enough to make your living to feed your family and survive. Things have gotten a little more complicated. We no longer need the numbers of people before to supply the goods to the even bigger population and have focused our efforts into providing public services which runs counter to the idea of jobs to make stuff for a profit. Entertainment is a business that shouldn’t exist, placing extortionate value on something so useless just because you can exploit the simple mathematical fact that you can make a ton of cash by many small transactions for something that has little to zero resource value. Fucking pigs, blah.

It’s all pretty aimless, youths get told to find their own way with no accurate advice about what the world actually needs to sustain it/us. We’re raised on one hand to think we have it all, we’ve got riches, food, alcohol, cars, music and it’s time to enjoy ourselves and on the other we’re all going to die because oil, whales, the Chinese, 9/11, a meteorite and starving children in Africa. It’s not surprising to find that people who think they have it all decide to do degrees/further their education in something they find fun and interesting but of little value in the world of business/economy (Art, History, Music etcetcetc). Funnily enough they get bitched at and ridiculed for following their hearts and having no work at the end of it.

Why are we still running blind into the future instead of carving it for ourselves? We have no definitive answers on how we’re going to continue our lifestyles or exactly what way they need to change. We don’t know what people we need to do what jobs. We don’t know what to do with the people that have found themselves lost in our clusterfuck of a society. We don’t know wtf we’re doing at all, just grazing the planet and bitching at each other spending our time overwhelmed with temporary bullshit that consists of childish bickering through politics, celebrities, media or any other nonsense you can think of.

Spending too much time on this, need to get back to alcohols….

Is it unreasonable to want to have a firm plan to survive for the next 1000 years? Are we able to plan ahead to say “Do exactly this, that and this and we are guaranteed a defined lifestyle for the next ‘n’ years.”? Why do we get upset with unemployed people?

How do fix humanity?

Wasted
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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

TL:DR

However, 1000 years ago people lived subsistance lives, were largely uneducated, disease, filth and death were commonplace.

If you asked your average Joe back then what life would be like in a thousand years, do you think they would have got anywhere near to what it is actually like now?

Future projections like that are totally pointless, other than for wasting a few hours and exercising one's imagination.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 00:27 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too many people, too much work to make even more people, or keep people alive that should die. Most of the world south of the equator, for instance.

Nuclear war is inevitable at some point. That'll sort out most of the problems. Humanity performs best during and just after a crisis.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I read it now.

Yes, it is unreasonable.

Keep drinking.
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 00:34 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Re: Our future for the next 1000 years Reply with quote

SoND wrote:

Wasted


Snip because people are short termists and tend not to plan ahead too far and tend to procrastinate. Also no plan tends to survive the actual carrying out of it.

And many things are covered with a somebody else's problem field so we ignore them as not our own.
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SoND
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PostPosted: 01:25 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

D O G wrote:
TL:DR

However, 1000 years ago people lived subsistance lives, were largely uneducated, disease, filth and death were commonplace.

If you asked your average Joe back then what life would be like in a thousand years, do you think they would have got anywhere near to what it is actually like now?

Future projections like that are totally pointless, other than for wasting a few hours and exercising one's imagination.


Living conditions have improved through advancements in technology and have been distributed by what we call capitalism/free market/economy or whatever the fuck we have. Not arguing about fairness, that’s just how it has been divided. There is still a lot of anger and confusion about what people are meant to do with themselves when they can't secure a job and get belittled for taking the benefits offered to them.

Average Joe back then is different than it is now. We have the benefit of being able to read our history, evaluate our living conditions and resources on a planetary scale and plan our future based on our, gradually more heavily, documented previous experience. We're at a point that we can destroy ourselves but we have yet to make a solid plan for the exact opposite.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 01:43 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

When the oil runs and we're still giving money to bankers instead of physicists then expect a return to a coal powered 19th century standard of living. That is all.
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ThoughtContro...
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PostPosted: 02:40 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
When the oil runs and we're still giving money to bankers instead of physicists then expect a return to a coal powered 19th century standard of living.


The desperate measures of the nuclear armed, squabbling empire in the resource war at the end of age of oil, means that we are likely to skip the coal age, and probably a few more, in the devolutionary period that's to come.

Ignorant peasants playing in the mud, to ignorant peasants with very clever modern technical toys, that they can use to send pictures of their dick around the world at light speed, back to ignorant peasants playing in the mud again. It's a circular process is civilization.
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killa
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PostPosted: 10:29 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

SoND wrote:
I’m going to let my brain take a bit of a dump here on the general topic of whatever.
Over the past 100ish years things have changed, incredibly, astrofuckingnomially and we’re currently in the middle of a transition but to where?


In my opinion and when I say that, I just mean my musings about this kind of thing. Is that currently we’re getting to the stage where the technological side of things is progressing far quicker than we ever could imagine. Also at the speed at which it is advancing, we’re losing sight of ourselves. Some kind of global mental breakdown will begin to happen at some point soon. I think the more spiritual side of things is being ignored, something’s going to creep in and freak the hell out of some people, others accept this is coming.. Why do you say In the middle of a transition What do you mean by that?

We have what we ‘need’. We’re building, making and inventing things we ‘think’ we need, even if we don’t. I think when the majority of people see a new way of watching TV or an advancement in the automotive industry, they think we’re advancing ourselves, when it’s quite the opposite.

SoND wrote:
I’ve noticed that real long term plans are very missing in anything I’ve heard from the government or just people, I’m not sure if anyone cares or understands what is happening.


I’m pretty sure they don’t. Some people walk around in a bubble as you know, accepting most things waved in front of them by our ‘leaders’. They rely on the ease of western culture, having the option to shrug at things and shuffle on. The government are not interested in sharing thoughts on a long term future.

SoND wrote:
Civilisations in the past never cared very much or were even able to cope with large numbers, some may have been able to understand the concept of the number One Billion but the size of it would have been obscene and totally unnecessary. In the past century we have discovered some astounding facts about who we are, where we came from and where we can potentially go.


Sadly the power comes to those who have the knowledge and the means to enslave large numbers using said knowledge...rather like religion but a more elaborate, interwoven mix of technology, psychology and bullshit. Our ancestors knew much more about themselves, internally, there was no need to think of the plan for the future. It wasn’t so much, not caring, as there was no paranoia surrounding your people and society. Plus, you seem to be only mentioning the population you know most about.

SoND wrote:
The corporations are our parents. They’ve made the world what it is today and will be responsible for where we go in the future. They’re responsible for the structure of our daily lives, they provide the jobs and services to keep people busy, they give us the comfort of our homes, and they feed and water us. Without the organisational structure of these entities we would be lost in our modern world. Without us there would be no them.


An unfortunate result of our minds. We’ve created our own crazy mix of technology, poverty and greed the world over. You have to remember that what you say about corporations, the modern world etc, isn’t how some civilisations live, even today.
A friend of my girlfriend came to stay with us last week. He had been travelling in South America for some time and stayed with a family in a tribe, near the jungle. It was heartbreaking to hear the stories of oil companies setting up shop several miles from where they live. They come to these people who had been living a carefree existence, utilising the earth around them. Healing themselves with only natural remedies and helping one another as a strong community. The oil company gave them building materials for more permanent accommodation, a reliable source of electricity and a medical centre nearby.
As they are brought into our way of thinking, supplies etc are exchanged for time controlled work. Pharmaceutical medicines have been provided and have been received well as they appear to offer a very immediate solution, saving time and hassle when compared to using the natural plant medicines.
Money has been a factor that has been introduced also, creating greed, jealousy and even hate amongst people who previously, until now...didn’t need fuck all.
They’ve experienced the cold and shitty western power of law and order, where their food has been contaminated, they are now being helped to fight a case against the oil company.
I’m not saying everyone should have to go back to wearing grass skirts and eating berries but it just made me think how far we think we’ve come, when really we’re still slinging shit at each other, like our cousins in the wild.

SoND wrote:
It’s all pretty aimless, youths get told to find their own way with no accurate advice about what the world actually needs to sustain it/us. We’re raised on one hand to think we have it all, we’ve got riches, food, alcohol, cars, music and it’s time to enjoy ourselves and on the other we’re all going to die.


The youth will do alright. We’ve been pressured into thinking our grandparents and our parents have the right idea. When sadly your mum and dad have been pressured into a money making unit for an almost worthwhile wage, with little or no reward. Real rewards come from making a positive impact on one another’s lives, not feeding the greed of our ‘leaders’. Sadly it’s a mindfuck just how deep we are in this shi*, you do FEEL that we can’t have one without the other. We can, obviously, but the way you’ve been brought up, it’s hard to see that we should be ‘improving’ our lives...why does it always need to be exclusive to a minority of people?

SoND wrote:
Is it unreasonable to want to have a firm plan to survive for the next 1000 years?


Being a young man who saw the internet born. I’ve seen what can be a positive thing about it, also a negative. I think really, instead of fighting the corrupt and the greedy in an angry mob. We break them down from the bottom up, using things that are out of their reach. Obviously i don’t feel we need to fight fire with fire...our leaders give us no choice. Every few hundred years, some cleansing happens, new leaders form and we enter a new chapter.
I think the internet will be a more integral part of our daily lives in the future, a faceless interactive world society where everything is dealt without physical money and physical meetings. It’s a fairly bleak outlook but i think we’ve lit the blue touch paper and it’s rapidly gaining momentum.
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Charlie
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PostPosted: 11:42 - 18 Nov 2011    Post subject: Re: Our future for the next 1000 years Reply with quote

SoND wrote:
Automation has released countless humans from their duties on the production line. This has fucked us and we’re still feeling it. Things were easy before, you got a job at the local mine/farm/factory/trade and this was enough to make your living to feed your family and survive. Things have gotten a little more complicated. We no longer need the numbers of people before to supply the goods to the even bigger population and have focused our efforts into providing public services which runs counter to the idea of jobs to make stuff for a profit.


Automation has ended localism; we either need to move more into a global world and become conscious of our place in a worldwide society, or we go back to localism and forget about the world as a whole.

Unfortunately (I rather like localism) with the knowledge we now have of the world I don't think we can go back to localism. The vast majority think that our quality of life have improved as we've moved away from localism. We need to start working together to control greed and make people think about their impact on the world.

The main aim for so many people in life is to make money. With money they can buy a house, can go on holidays, do this, do that. They stop caring about where the money comes from and just concentrate on making money. This is inherently wrong and flawed. It isn't a sustainable existence. People begin to disregard their actions and how it effects other people and the world.

A new carrot is needed to solve this, there needs to be a new drive for people so they can forget about making money. However this carrot has to be something which everyone wants, which is very difficult to achieve, for it work it needs to be a basic human instinct, i.e. greed. Greed was a probably a key tool for humans to become dominate, however the original use of it is no longer needed in our developed society. The focus of greed for many people has shifted to material goods. It needs to shifted again to something else before our worldwide civilisation comes crashing down.

People need to taught about the Gaia theory, and discussions like this need to take place to make people think about their place in this human project.

Personally I think we should refocus our greed on knowledge; instead of people spending their life trying to make money, they should try and expand human knowledge. However I accept not everyone wants to do this so it is a bit unattainable.

To answer your final question, I don't think it is unreasonable, I think it would be naive not to have discussions like these. I don't think the plan needs to be as rigid as you say, however we need a new drive or the human project will quickly end up going backwards.

Anyone interested about the effects and how corporations became into being should read Life Inc by Douglas Rushkoff. It is a real eye opener and leads to some deep thinking.
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Pie-Roe
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PostPosted: 03:27 - 19 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too much shroom induced thinking and not enough turbo.
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Paddy Blake
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 19 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

First people need to get past the religious sh1t.
Some think that a big war in the middle east will cause their god to come to earth and save them.
I would say people should look at getting passed the next 20 years.

These days the talk is about Iran and will China back them but I think
China could f@ck US by dumping their bonds on the market as they are the biggest holder atm.

I think someone will hit Iran within 2 months or at most 2 years and sh1h will fly.

So when their god does not arrive they will say well we did it wrong and will start some other war to get their god to come here.

We can do what we like but so long as religion is part of peoples thinking it makes no difference as people think do this and that and die than go to a nice place.
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 12:09 - 19 Nov 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Pharaohs and Slaves had the same issues but with different technology/finance. In 20,000 years we will have the same issues on Mars and Pluto.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 02 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

i don't think society as a whole will move forward. people will not be needed to do anything. machines will do everything for us and people will be content on just sitting there and watching the world go by as they play angry birds version 101 on their iPhone 2100.
The way in which we live is changing. The population is growing exponentially and the need for human involvement is rapidly declining. what are all these people going to do with their lives. they are not needed. All the dumb fvkers that had to do manual labour because they couldn't do anything else will not be able to contribute as their job can be done by a machine quicker and more perfect than what he could do.
People have changed their paradigm from living to survive to living for entertainment. At this moment in time a person can do absolutely nothing and get given shelter and food. everything they need to survive. 200 years ago you wouldn't be able to survive without doing anything.
money needs to hurry up and become completely and utterly worthless.
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Last edited by el_oso on 02:27 - 02 Dec 2011; edited 2 times in total
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fatpies
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PostPosted: 02:21 - 02 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

the_godfather wrote:
i don't think society as a whole will move forward. people will not be needed to do anything. machines will do everything for us and people will be content on just sitting there and watching the world go by as they play angry version 101 on their iPhone 2100.


Until the oil runs low, agriculture without oil can only support 2billion people tops.

And Ghawar has been running 50% water these days.
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el_oso
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PostPosted: 02:26 - 02 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

synthetic oils can be made for lubricational purposes.
there are other forms of energy available. society won't accept them because they are too dangerous and/or corporations won't switch over because oil is cheaper than nucelar/solar/fusion/tidal power and that would eat into their profits.
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