UK Licence is too easy?

[_Chris_]

I think it's a bit too easy in this country to get on the road. I'm not talking about the actual test, but the provisional stage.

I don't think anyone should be allowed on the road, even for lessons, until they have passed their theory test. They'll have to pass it eventually anyway. This goes for cars and bikes. No theory pass, no CBT.

Perhaps the CBT should also be split into two, one for full car licence holders and one without. I found that my 10+ years of Car road experience made the CBT much easier than the kids that had never been on the road before.

A 1 day CBT, for a 17y/o kid on a geared 125 capable of 60+mph who has never been on the road before isn't anywhere near enough. I'm not that bothered about them wrapping themselves around a lamppost, more about them crashing into me.

Perhaps even worse for a car, buy a provisional licence, then jump in a car with someone who's been driving a while and you're all set (L plates + insurance etc). The other driver may have passed before a theory test was compulsory, and may know absolutely nothing about the highway code. I'm sure we've all seen 'mature' drivers driving dangerously (not necessarily speeding) making poor lane/maneuver choices.

Perhaps where I live makes me think like this? I live in Milton Keynes, where nearly all of the roads are 70mph, when some idiot pulls out of a side turning too late/without looking it's not pretty.

I'm not for a nanny state at all, however... I don't want feckless idiots who don't have the first clue about the highway code on MY road pulling out on ME.

I also think the actual test isn't enough either. Especially for cars, a sketchy pass, then straight on the motorway...

When I'm in charge:
Cars + Bikes
1 - Pass theory test
2 - CBT / Car off road equivalent
3 - On road Lessons
4 - Test 1 - limited power, no night driving and no motorways
5 - Test 2 - Motorways + Night Driving + hazard avoidance (skid pan)

Too harsh?
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Just getting started

[nickGT]

The dvla would love you. I bet someone is reading this right now rubbing their money grabbing fingers together!

All jokes aside I agree with most of your points. However passing a license is extremely expensive. My bike license cost me just over £1k. More training should be made compulsory but not at the expense of the motorist.

Agree entirely about the 17yo with CBT. Pretty mad when you think about it.

[EazyDuz]

If you insist on a seperate test for night riding, then you must include a seperate test for rain, ice and fog, so the learner is tested under these other real life circumstances as well.
Yes its too harsh, and btw the theory test teaches you maybe 1% of the highway code, so doing it first or not, wont make any difference.
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To shreds you say? Tss tss tss

[daemonoid]

To drive:

1. Pass theory
2. CBT
3. On road lessons (or with Ls as now)
4. Limited power (night driving is a necessity in the UK especially this time of year so allow that - especially as younguns have much better vision)
5. Now you have cat A, goto 3, cat++.
6. Skills test every 3 years starting within 3 months of first pass including motorway driving.
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[TheSmiler]

[Knot600RR]

[_Chris_]

The potential financial impact would be pretty shit I agree. I'm currently on a CBT, so I'll be forking out for DAS in the spring, along with my girlfriend, so that's £1,400 right there.

No, I'm not going to be in charge any time too soon. This is an 'if I were in charge'.

If a driver isn't confident of their ability to handle a car and their surroundings, so avoids night/rain/motorway driving, then there's something wrong here. They should be able to have the observation and control to drive in the dark.

Wouldn't need a separate test for rain/ice as the skid pan would simulate that, the night driving would be 'similar' enough for fog (e.g. reduced visibility)

daemonoid - I like the idea of regular retests (although not for me, of course!), perhaps just for the first 6 years? It would have to be cheap though, insurance and petrol cost enough as it is.
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Just getting started

[Kris]

Disagree entirely.

Whilst I do realise driving standards are pretty poor, I attribute this to the growing number of oxygen thieves that plague society.

No manners, no forward planning, no consideration for others etc etc.

Legislation won't stop that. Ever.
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[P.addy]

[mysterious_rider]

Wow glad you arent in charge

A cbt is a taster of what bikes are like I guess. If you want more you go for your bike licence, and if you don't like it well, not too much of a loss is it.

A theory test to ride a 125. You have to learn somewhere. Don't even need to do a theory test if you're going to drive a car as a learner.

[pinkyfloyd]

Test is just fine the way it is. Once apon a time a man with a clipboard would tell you to ride around a pre determined set of roads and at a random interval he would jump out waving his clipboard to signal an emergency stop. Passed that and you passed your test.

Not long after those days they changed to an examiner riding behind you watching to make sure you are competent.

Now you have to jump through several more tests just to get the full license.

As everyone else said, Im glad your not running things. But the EU would love you and you should contact them and ask for a job title.

Professional test fucker upper should suffice.

Edit: You mean to say you have not actually done your bike test yet? How on earth can you sit there and say its too easy then.

Tell ya what. You go do the DAS training and pass your test first time and then come back and troll some here. But be warned, come back and tell us you have failed it we're going to collectively laugh you out of the forum.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[_Chris_]

[Andy_Pagin]

The only part I agree with is theory before CBT, though personally I think a motorcycle theory test for an experienced car driver is largely pointless.

The theory questions should be re-vamped & slimmed down as well, far too many of them are irrelevant or simply there at the behest of politically motivated environmentalists.
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[t121anf]

[_Chris_]

[_Chris_]

[Rogerborg]

Sort of agree.

I agree that a theory pass should be a pre-requisite to validate provisional entitlement - you should know the query before getting on the road, not before passing a test. But once you've got a license in any category, theory tests to validate further non-commercial provisional categories shouldn't be necessary. A couple of different multiple choice questions aren't enough to justify different car and bike tests: those areas can and should be covered on the CBT.

I also agree on the CBT not being adequate for people with no previous road experience - the Yoof on mine nearly got creamed shooting a red. However, we've seen loads of tales of CBTs that were neither Training nor Basic, or people being given the certificate before lunch and told to push off, so there's plenty of room for improving the existing provision before meddling. A fixed pricing scheme might help.

However, this is just shooting the breeze. There won't be any changes before late 2012 / early 2013, and those will be to the test format (reversion to a single test) and the introduction of the new 3rd Directive license categories.

Cheer up though, there's still a lurking threat to solo L. The DVLA said they were intending to keep it, but I'm not convinced we'll be able to hang on to it indefinitely. I'm pretty sure that the intention of the 3rd Directive is to require training and a test before allowing riding A1 category bikes. We may succeed in dissuading all 17 year old from getting into biking yet, it'll just take the right combination of European pedantry and Whitehall gold plating.
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[pinkyfloyd]

He's starting to bore me now. Dude. Seriously, pass your test first then come bleating about how easy it is. Failing that just wait until 2013 when they change it and make it even harder to pass.

Just because you have driven around in a cage for 10+ years does not mean you are going to be a more competent rider than noddy who is only 17 and on his first bike. The first thing my instructors asked on a CBT was if there were any car drivers. The one person who said yes was told to forget everything he knows about driving because on a bike it is a completely different experience.

As said a few times, the CBT is a taster, nothing more. Its like the old cycling proficiency test you used to do at school. Its to prove to the DSA appointed instructors that you are capable of riding on the roads without causing an accident or killing yourself and to be honest its a bloody good idea. When I learnt to ride bikes the CBT did not exist in Northern Ireland and as a result I picked up many habits that had to be bashed out of me before going for my DAS over here last year.

As it stands Noddy the 17 year old can go to an officially appointed training school, regulated by the DSA and learn to ride a motorcycle safely on the roads. He can also go to mommy dearest who has been driving for 20 years and forgotten everything she was taught on her test, picked up so many bad habits and has became somewhat of a liability on the roads, and ask her to insure him and teach him to drive.

Given the choice I know who I would rather on my road pulling out in front of me.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[Tenko]

I think the bike test should be a day of theory including mainenance, haul a CB900 around the cones for an hour or so then out onto the road on a 125. After the CB900 experience anybody will find the 125 a piece of piss and will be able to concentrate on the finer points of riding without worrying about the basics...

Similarly for cars but with an old Granada then on the road in a Corsa or something like...

[jjdugen]

If I were in charge.....
A dedicated track type environment duplicating urban roads with a 'high speed' section to duplicate unlimited A roads.
CCTV monitoring of every inch of the 'track' full radio communications between control and student. Classroom disection of rider ability after each session.
Let those who want to experience speed have to earn the right to the 'fast' part of the track by demonstrating competence in both theory and machine control on the 'slow' track.
Any accident caused by inability puts the student right back to square one.
Work out for yourselves the progression of tests, but make the price far more realistic, this is supposed to be TRAINING, not making a fast buck.
This would remove the wobblers from the road until very competent, give them goals to aim at that are 'fun' and hopefully stop the young lads saying F*ck it and getting into / onto uninsured vehicles and blasting around the estates.
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[Tenko]

I wouldn't like the thought of creating more rules, but if we had to make one it should be compulsory for anybody who has passed their test to go out on a decent run behind an instructor - to see how it is done in the real world and to learn a bit about riding in a group, safe overtakes etc.

I've seen many mates pass their tests, buy a 600 or similar then within a month park it in a field trying to keep up with folk. Perhaps impressing on new riders not to go out of their comfort zones would be worthwhile...

[Andy_Pagin]

[N cee thirty]

sounds like any other big decision making buffoon

never actually been there or done it,but has the power to change it and make it harder for everyone

as someone else said,you won't stop people being retards/making mistakes.

thats life i'm afraid.
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[Walloper]

It would be much more effective to employ snipers who take out ped-bois who do stupid things on their skoots and peds.

Like dangerous filtering etc.
Riders wearing trainers should be bull-fucked too.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
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[Walloper]