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rac3r
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PostPosted: 11:08 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Bad news for some bikes Reply with quote

https://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=24900

Could affect some older bikes with carbs and also bikes with plastic fuel tanks (they swell up)
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Martay
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The garage i work at currently sells bio-unleaded. When they bought it in, we were given a bit of info about it. We weren't told anything about this Confused Also, we were told its is 10% bio at the moment.
So what exactly does it damage in the engine?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm OK I'm 100% Beemir. Cool

The story over unleaded was hyped too much.
Most cars would have been fine on Unleaded but it was news and got around in parts and folk read what they wanted to.
One fact was for high performance cars Ferrari's, Porches etc. the engine tune and unleaded were incompatible and performance was slightly reduced.

The biggest problem with Biofuels is that information on it's effects is so varied and sparse and conflicting at present. As it was with unleaded.
I do not rely on the Oil Companies to tell it how it is that is for sure.
But it will not stop me buying petrol/Diesel when I need it.
It may only be high mileage vehicles that suffer effects (if any).

Mercedes were one of the big names who mentioned concern over Bio-uels and the engines of their vehicles and warranty.
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Bezzer
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PostPosted: 11:52 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's a class action going on in the USA by Ducati owners, the plastic fuel tanks are leaking and/or deforming on loads of their bikes due to the effects of Ethanol in their fuel. Ducati are putting their head in the sand and just replacing like for like for those in warranty so they are still doing it and sticking two fingers up to those outside warranty. Then again I suppose when made the tanks were alright for the available fuel but not for the newer stuff, don't know how much notice was given to the changeover though.
Makes you wonder whether the millions of plastic petrol jerry cans out there will cope with it or will there be loads of ticking time bombs in peoples cars and garages?.
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bezzer wrote:
There's a class action going on in the USA by Ducati owners, the plastic fuel tanks are leaking and/or deforming on loads of their bikes due to the effects of Ethanol in their fuel. Ducati are putting their head in the sand and just replacing like for like for those in warranty so they are still doing it and sticking two fingers up to those outside warranty. Then again I suppose when made the tanks were alright for the available fuel but not for the newer stuff, don't know how much notice was given to the changeover though.
Makes you wonder whether the millions of plastic petrol jerry cans out there will cope with it or will there be loads of ticking time bombs in peoples cars and garages?.


The fuel tank on my Monster was replaced out of 'good will' but in the US people have been through 3 or 4 tanks! Only a few people have had this problem in the UK so far though
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can they not just add some Redex at the fill??

Rolling Eyes

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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:
Can they not just add some Redex at the fill??

Rolling Eyes

Razz


That won't do anything. Some people have had their new tanks coated with something called Caswell? though, not from Ducati themselves however.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

rac3r wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Can they not just add some Redex at the fill??

Rolling Eyes

Razz


That won't do anything. Some people have had their new tanks coated with something called Caswell? though, not from Ducati themselves however.


Awaaaaay......

Laughing
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.Chris.
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The story over unleaded was hyped too much...


Not necessarily - many vehicles that have cast iron cylinder heads cannot run on unleaded long-term without valve seat recession, unless hardened seats are fitted or an additive is used. There were plenty of cars that fitted into this category that were only 10-15 years old at the time 4* was withdrawn. You're right that some cars only needed their ignition timing retarded by a few degrees.

As for ethanol, corrosion inhibiting additives are starting to appear, but none have been independently tested yet and I'm not sure if they'll cure all problems (i.e. might stop metallic corrosion, but not plastic degradation). Ethanol also apparently tends to result in a leaner fuel/air mixture, which may need adjusting for on carbed cars/bikes. It's also more prone to vapourising, although I doubt this would be as much of a problem on bikes as on cars.

All a general PITA, really.
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c-m
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PostPosted: 12:39 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great i'm about to a bike with a plastic tank.

Though being Italian, surely as they already have E10, then the bike should cope?

Interestingly, is the biofuel element the reason for better MPG on Euro fuel? I know that bio diesel offers extra performance over normal diesel
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

c-m wrote:
Great i'm about to a bike with a plastic tank.

Though being Italian, surely as they already have E10, then the bike should cope?

Interestingly, is the biofuel element the reason for better MPG on Euro fuel? I know that bio diesel offers extra performance over normal diesel


The plastic tanks Ducati's use are made by Acerbis which is the same as some other bikes like KTM etc. So all depends really on the type of plastic and if the bike is left for long periods of time
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

It might be better to bow our heads and give up biking then... Crying or Very sad

I have decided to Ride 'till I melt/dissolve.

Onwards. To Oblivion and Beyond...
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FBSF
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, does anyone know if am I going to get any issues on my poor old CM?

If I end up having to buy super unleaded (as apparantly SU is unlikely to have bio added), it will kill any cost advantage using the bike has over the missus' car.
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Gothtec
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PostPosted: 13:45 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bio-fuel is inherently evil... It does nothing for the planet and takes up valuable land needed for food (and nature)...

When the USA suddenly got into the boi-fuel trend it switched a 1/3 of its crop land to bio-fuel... This used to be sold to countries outside the US, which have now had a large portion of its food imports cut off, mainly south america!!!

Oh and the price of bread went up world wide!!

Bio-fuel is not carbon neutral and never has been!!!!!
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it might be time to sell my MZ...
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 14:04 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

my blades got a plastic tank Sad
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Noxious89123
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PostPosted: 16:47 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a load of horse shit Evil or Very Mad
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stonesie
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another plastic tank here, maybe I should have kept the SV..... Nah, bollocks to it Laughing
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salty21
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
my blades got a plastic tank Sad


Isnt that just a tank cover though? a lot of honda's have the actual tank set lower down and further back towards the rider and the bit you think of as the tank is actually just a cover for the airbox (in the shape of a tank)
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:54 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Noxious89123 wrote:
This is a load of horse shit Evil or Very Mad



Not quite.

Bio Fuels use grains and cetara which are fermented and distilled to produce ethanols/isopropyls and methanols.

Where as Horse Shit has to be piled yeah high in an enclosed compartment and allowed decompose there by producing Methane which is a gas and not a liquid as Ethanol is.

I hope this helps.

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Moxey
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PostPosted: 18:26 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll check in future if the MZ starts pissing out fuel from the tank (placcy tank was another + for winter riding when I got it).

I'll have a look into the effect of ethanol on the fuel system though mostly because the guy I bought the MZ off of has an Armstrong MD500 which supposedly runs on lower compression with variable timing or some crap to allow it to run on low octane fuels such as ethanol the fuel system on but it still uses old carbs from what I remember.
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Torx
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

And my life just keeps getting worse. What for all those of us who run old 60's and 70's fords? Rolling Eyes
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 21:01 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

Torx wrote:
And my life just keeps getting worse. What for all those of us who run old 60's and 70's fords? Rolling Eyes


They run like shit anyway so you won't realise any significant difference or drop off in performance.

Razz
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 21:06 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

salty21 wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
my blades got a plastic tank Sad


Isnt that just a tank cover though? a lot of honda's have the actual tank set lower down and further back towards the rider and the bit you think of as the tank is actually just a cover for the airbox (in the shape of a tank)


I'll check this Thumbs Up

thanks
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stonesie
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 20 Dec 2011    Post subject: Reply with quote

The current up-to 5% mix will be around untill 2015 apparantly according to this
https://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2011-03-29a.1082.1

It depends how much faith you put in what is said by the Government.
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