ABS

[Lupine Lacuna]

Why is there still so many bikes without at least the option?

Disapointing it is not on the Street Triple or the the 675 Brutale (two bikes I am thinking about for the spring, now that I am used to the bandit....!)

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Because we don't need to be nannied, and most of the systems have been crap, cutting in too soon and giving odd lever feel.

However the BMW S1000RR, and Honda CBR600RR/Fireblade systems are meant to be pretty decent.

Still won't stop you crashing if you grab a handful of brake mid corner.
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[Lupine Lacuna]

Do people seriously believe grabbing the brake mid corner with ABS will save them? God there isnt much hope for them is there!

My understanding is that all the combined ABS systems on the Hondas work well, not just the Blade and 600RR.

In particular, what is wrong with Ducati's systems?

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[Lupine Lacuna]

I should add that my motivation for wanting ABS is for a few reasons:

1. It takes pros quite a bit of practice in the wet to stop as fast without ABS as with ABS. I am obviously a long way from that standard. Furthermore it has also been shown that most riders rarely use the full power of their brakes, even in the dry, for fear of locking the wheels up.

2. How can I gurantee that I won't panic brake in the wet if I car pulls out in front of me? I can't.

3. By giving greater confidence and safety in the wet, I can enjoy wet weather riding more.

Seperately, does anyone have any tips how to practice hard (emergency) braking in a safe way, on, say, a closed road, so you know exactly how much you have, etc?

[robbieguy2003]

+1 to what Big Ham said.

My firm belief is that as much as you learn good throttle control and learn to accelerate quickly, you must also learn the same action on the brakes. Slamming a throttle wide open doesn't work, it's progressive and involves loading the suspension and Tyre before really opening it up, the same goes for braking, how quickly and effectively you can train yourself to do that without panic is a massively important skill.

I think ABS is ok but as Ham says, it's not going to help when leaned over at a reasonable angle.

I also don't think learners jumping on ABS bikes and ignoring learning good braking skills is a great idea either. Bikes aren't cars and have totally different dynamics, adding sensors that just detect wheel lock/slip/speed aren't good enough. Until you have full fly-by-wire throttle/brakes and sensors on headstock rotation/lean angle sensors and suspension/swingarm movement - and a ton of data you can't really effectively have a fully effective system, and then you still have the bigger issue - a rider chopping the throttle during a small slide or applying rear and front brakes at varying pressures.

At the end of the day TCS and ABS have been going on cars since the 80s, they've only really started going onto bikes. I reckon in 10-15 years they'll be quite good but at the moment, they'll only save you from certain reasonably simple scenarios.

Add in more complex scenarios that have less margin for error and the failsafe systems fail. As Ham has said leaning over and apply brakes heavily can cause a slide. On a car this wouldn't be acceptable, on a bike it is.

Selling a bike marked with ABS without really knowing what that specific ABS system can be worse than having no ABS because you can be giving people a false sense of security.
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Current Bikes: Honda CBR 600RR - '07, Suzuki GSX1250 FA ST '11
Old Bikes: Suzuki Intruder 125 LC - '2001, Honda CBR 600F - '92, Honda CBR 600RR - '03

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[robbieguy2003]

Fair Point Chris.

The 98 R1 doesn't have it, and no bike, anywhere, ever in the history of bikes has ever gone faster and Chuck Norris rides that bike. Case closed.
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Current Bikes: Honda CBR 600RR - '07, Suzuki GSX1250 FA ST '11
Old Bikes: Suzuki Intruder 125 LC - '2001, Honda CBR 600F - '92, Honda CBR 600RR - '03

[Lupine Lacuna]

Thanks for the useful info guys

[Bendy]

[Rogerborg]

[robbieguy2003]

[G]

[pinkyfloyd]

My bike doesnt have ABS and I have never had a problem stopping.

Go figure.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[mattress]

My bike has TC and ABS. Having these as standard was one of the main reasons why I bought. The ABS is superb and has been exercised fully on several occasions. The TC has cut in a few times when the rear has started to spin/slide.

Of course I would recommend these safety features to any rider but I too often hear the idiotic response of, 'Safety devices are for pussies' from many bikers. These guys would probably ride without helmets, if allowed?

I suppose it's natural selection in action?!

[mattress]

[stinkwheel]

[Bendy]

[stinkwheel]

[robbieguy2003]

[mattress]

I hardly push my bike beyond its or my limits but, as I said earlier, the ABS and TC has helped me out once or twice.

I live way out in the countryside where single track roads, tractors, caravans and farm animals on the roads are often the norm. Yes, I've been pushing it and suddenly been confronted with any of the above. I've been guilty of grabbing a fistful too, on at least one occasion. Who hasn't? Did the ABS save my neck? Who knows for sure, but I was glad it was there. Do I ride thinking that the ABS will make up for poor ability or stupid risk taking? Of course not.

TC? I've hit a patch of mud or a wet drain cover on a bend before and the TC had cut in (was on highest setting at the time). Did it save my bacon? Again, who knows? But it certainly is nice to know it's there, looking out for me and possibly helping in situations that may be unavoidable.

I came into biking late in life. Of course, I wish I had bought a bike years ago and learned the art of riding and developed my skills throughout my adult life but I didn't for one reason or another. Of course I am capable but I generally ride safely and am open to any device that makes the whole experience a safer one.

Yes, I've bought all the safety equipment available and often paid silly amounts of money for it. Of course, when the chips are down, no amount of safety devices will avoid the inevitable but in my head I feel much better prepared when getting on the bike. And no, it doesn't make me think for one second that these features make me indestructible or faultless.

Biking is inherently dangerous and that fact is unavoidable but why should I, or anyone else, be ridiculed for purchasing a bike with TC or ABS when its purpose is to reduce risk? Wether or not it will keep me alive longer or make up for lack of experience or ability is not even brought to question here...we all know the answer to that one.

[stinkwheel]

[Lupine Lacuna]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[moppy]