Other peoples fallout

[The Disapproving Brit]

OK, I'm going to give the TL;DR version of the run up before I describe the full fallout here.

- Me (32) and my mate Dan (34) have a mutual female friend Sam (19), who over the last few months has become infatuated with Dan.
- About 3 months ago, they slept together. Since then, she's been trying to find out where she stands. He still flirts with her like crazy, but that's normal for him with everyone. She has no idea whether it was just a shag or he wants something more. Whenever she asks, he avoids the question. From an outsider, the gist seems to be that he likes her but isn't sure if he should be dating a 19 year old.
- She confides in me, asking for advice. During this stage, she confesses to me that she self harms.
- On Boxing Day, Dan meets an old friend Colin, who has been a mate for about 15 years, but has worked away for the last 5 years. They have an argument about something, but the next day Colin apologises, saying he thinks his drink was spiked.

Now, New Years Eve. Sam, Dan, me, Colin and a few other friends are out. I've never met Colin before tonight. About half 12, Dan and Colin head off to the club ahead of us. By the time we catch up, Dan is totally wasted to the point he can barely stand. This is relevant because a) we're only talking 40 minutes or so since he left us, and b) Dan only drinks pints - he doesn't touch shots. At the time we put it down to the fresh air hitting him, and that may be the case, but he got very drunk very fast - it seems suspicious.

Anyway, I went out for a smoke with a few other friends. When I get back in, Sam has her tongue down Colin's throat. Dan is barely conscious, but propping up the bar, watching. The next day, he tells me that both of them are dead to him. Apparently he'd told Colin that same night that he liked her and was going to tell her later. On speaking to her, Colin had told her that Dan said he wasn't interested in her, and she should move on.

Anyway, so far so good. No one is completely in the right here, and getting off with his mate was definitely crossing a line, but she had no idea where she stood so I can see her side too. His reaction in cutting her off seems reasonable. However, I now have a heartbroken self harmer to deal with. That in itself is OK, I can handle that. What I can't handle is what happens next.

On Friday, I get a Facebook message from Dan, asking me to pass on a message to Sam. He says he's calmed down, and wants to meet in a neutral place on Monday. He's not promising anything, but the impression is that he hopes they can at least be on talking terms and start fresh. Great. She'll be there. Last night, he sends me another message telling me he can't make it.

I respond telling him that if he wants to stand her up, he can't do it by proxy - he needs to contact her himself and tell her. I've been passing messages between them for a week now and I'm not going to break her heart on his behalf. He responds with "I'm not going to be able to make it on Monday. Also as she is barred from my phone I can't relay this to her so I think it's probably best if we just leave it". I reply with "No, it's not. You got her hopes up, so if you're going to break her heart again she deserves to hear that from you. Unblock her, pick up the phone, and call her - that way you can still have the chat you wanted."

Now, I know what's happened here. He's gotten drunk on Friday, decided it would be a good idea to try and reconcile, and isn't so sure now he's sober. But he's 34 for fucks sake, he's old enough to dump someone himself. So far he hasn't said whether he still wants to meet her or not - but if he does, "I'm sorry I've got to work now, can we do Tuesday instead" takes all of 5 seconds and is a message I wouldn't mind passing on. Not giving a date suggests he's backing out.

I get that he was hurt, and I get that she was mostly in the wrong. But right now, I've got a teenage self-harmer who's got her hopes up, and I have a feeling he's going to go dark on me now, so I'm forced into a position where I've got to tell her that he's not coming. Frankly, if he puts me in that position, he's not the person I thought he was and I'm never speaking to him again.

I think I'm going to remove his last option tonight. I'm meeting her anyway, so I'm going to call him and tell him to talk to her. If he says it's a bad time - well, you had the opportunity to arrange a good time and couldn't be bothered to pick up the phone, so now you have to do it on her terms.

I'm not sure if I want advice or just to vent here, but it seems I'm about to lose a close friend because he's too childish to tell a girl he shagged that he cares about her. I care a hell of a lot for Sam too, but I know her bad times tend to be at about 3am, and I just can't be there for her all the time when I have work at 7:30. Another mutual friend she's been confiding in has buried her nan and lost a baby this week, so from her point of view he's being a petty dick and there's more important things in the world than his pride.
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Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

Seems like Dan's being a baby about it.

Be there for her when it predictably goes tits up once more. TBF she should probably find someone nearer her own age IMO.

Maybe you'll get a sympathy shag.
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[The Disapproving Brit]

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[The Disapproving Brit]

Exactly - I completely understand why he told her he didn't want to talk to her, and have no problem being the intermediary when he wants to arrange a meeting to reconcile, but if he then wants to back out - sorry, you're a grown up, deal with your own consequences.
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Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[Visitor Q]

19 year old hotties that hang out with mid 30's dudes are always nutty.

Run. Swiftly.
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[The Disapproving Brit]

[Visitor Q]

[The Disapproving Brit]

[Rogerborg]

Far tl;dr, but from scanning I get the impression that the 19 year old is the most mature of the whole lot of you.
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[The Disapproving Brit]

[st3v3]

Hey, I'm a fair man. I'm 23. I'm an hour away...

Pics?
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[GhostRider]

Only thing I can suggest is each person drinks an ice cold glass of grow-the-fuck-up. Jesus fucking wept.

GhostRider
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I have all the characteristics of a human being: blood, flesh, skin, hair; but not a single, clear, identifiable emotion, except for greed and disgust. Something horrible is happening inside of me and I don't know why. My nightly bloodlust has overflown into my days. I feel lethal, on the verge of frenzy. I think my mask of sanity is about to slip.

[Visitor Q]

[The Artist]

Dan sounds like he needs to grow up

Sam sounds like she needs to grow up as well. Self harming? That is so cliche.

Tell them to sort their lives out.

[Clanger]

He shagged her then avoided her for about 3months, screams volumes that he isn't really that interested...and the fact he changed his mind when she snogs his mate is by the by.

He had his chance, he blew it.

If I were you I would tell them both that you want out...and stop being the go-between, tell them to sort it out themselves. If this makes either of them angry at you...then they aren't really your mate, they are using you.

Step away from the situation and refuse to talk about it with either of them will stop fuelling the fire. Tell them to work it out or shut up. You have to be tough to get results.

(For what it's worth, I also believe 15years is TOO BIG an age gap...friendship yes, relationship no).
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[The Disapproving Brit]

Apparently the other mutual friend (the one who already buried her nan and lost a baby this week) blew up at him this morning, gave him an earful of what she's already gone through this week and made it clear that she's not prepared to break her friends heart on top of all that just because he can't be bothered to follow through with commitments he made while he was pissed. He apologised and said something about having 'sorted it.' Presumably this means he's contacted her, but what's been said is as yet unknown.

Time will tell, I suppose. I'm meeting her tonight so I'm sure I'll get the story then.

As for getting involved, I'm generally happy to play mediator with friends to the best of my ability - I've got no qualms about being honest with both of them with an outsider perspective of what both sides have done wrong, and in this case I can perfectly understand why he told her never to talk to him again, so I was happy to do what I could to get things moving since they clearly both still cared. That said, trying to get me to stand her up for him is crossing the line.
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Current Bikes: 1983 Honda VF400FD / 2003 Honda VT750 Shadow
Bike Test Passed 18/03/09, Car Test Passed 14/05/13

[hellkat]

You're doing too much "he said/she said".
Get yourself out of the middle and tell them to talk to each other.

If you are concerned about one or the other of them, then ask them about it (i.e., your concerns as a friend should be (a) her self harming; and (b) his excessive drinking).

BUT ... don't go running from one to the other - you're not being helpful, you're making it worse for yourself and both of them (and fuck the "Colin" issue - or other assorted side issues, they're just extra noise)

If they can't talk to each other, regardless of age, then there's not much point in considering a relationship.
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[The Disapproving Brit]

[st3v3]

[pits]

[GhostRider]

[Clanger]

[Kwaks]

You need to read between the lines.

Your friend had too much to drink, not the first or last time, his memory of the night is hazy, he is not sure if he put in a decent performance or had a visit from the droop.Hence his reluctance to speak directly.

She is 19 and was impressed he made it in without making a mess of the sheets. She has forgotten the sick at the side of the bed and him pissing in the cupboard during the night, another plus point is his job pays a living wage, does not have stars on the nametag and he gets into the clubs.

Can it work? Depends if she can handle more nights in front of the tv than she currently does.
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[Rogerborg]