quick tight cornering?

[kawashima]

When I want to make a quick tight cornering, should I use a lot of half clutch or I shouldn't use half clutch??? A or B?

https://i21.photobucket.com/albums/b295/kawashima_/tightcornering-02.png

My bike is twin and has high 1st gear.
If I don't use half clutch, the rpm is nearly bottom at corner.
If I apply half clutch, I can keep around 2000rpm, but
- Is it alright using half clutch during engine braking?
- I use a lot of rear brake even after the corner but is it alright?
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own:2020 Serow 250
owned: 2012 YB125SP, 2008 TDM900, 2005 W650, 2002 LS125R, 2002 CB400SF, NS50F, C50 / Trip to UK(2009), Hokkaido touring(2013)

[JoeDougieDoug...]

I don't know the answer, but let me just say that they're very good paint diagrams, better than what BCF is used to
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[P.]

No clutch, drop down to 1st/2nd.

Thats what I would do.

[kawashima]

[Apexes]

I never use clutch cornering as you've mentioned, the more revs in the bike the more stable it is going round the corner
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[DrDonnyBrago]

My bike has a very twitchy and grabby 1st gear, especially at low speed. Without slipping the clutch (using half clutch and some throttle) it jumps around and isn't smooth. At corners about 10mph I slip the clutch in 1st, or use very low revs in 2nd.

In the paint diagramI would be using clutch, throttle and rear brake. It all depends on the bike. If you need to use clutch then use it, if you don't then don't use it. Clutch parts are pretty cheap, bathed in oil and designed to be slipped, don't be afraid of using it.

[kawashima]

[iooi]

Only thing I would say about using the clutch in that situation.... Is if your fingers slip.....

I'll let you guess the rest

Slow in, drive out
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[DrDonnyBrago]

[The999Kid]

personally i change down to first just before i tip in to the corner and let the clutch out to accelerate away, at no point is the clutch held at a fixed position during this method....

so just before you turn your head to look into the road, clutch in, tap down for first, set revs and clutch out just as the front wheel passes the junction lines for the sideroad.
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[whitedevil]

I would use the clutch to control my speed not the throttle, i also wouldn't use the rear brake unless the bike was completely upright and doing about 5mph.
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[chris-red]

I do what you show in A but without the half clutch engine engine braking.

Engine braek into the corner and as soon as you start to tip in I clutch in revs up and let the clutch out throughout the turn to control the power down.

It makes the power smoother I have found.

Have you done the airbox mod to your TDM? it makes the bike much better at low revs, adding a power commander made it pull smoothly from about 2k rpm.
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[SirToU]

Just a couple of questions for you?

What happened to the front brake? 80% of your braking.
Engine braking and rear brake has the same effect (mostly).
At idle, what speed is your bike doing? (in a straight line)?
How fast can YOU turn the bike on idle?
IMHO this sounds a bit daft, why are you looking at doing 90 degrees fast on the road? It will only end in tears
It's all about planning and not about rear brake. If you adopt too much use of the rear brake, eventually you will loose the rear end in this scenario. Especially in wet and cold conditions.
If you want to go fast round this corner, use the front brake,(or both) til 0-25% of the turn, getting the corner speed right, get off the brakes and using the throttle (about 10%) to drive round the corner for the the next 50% of the bend. Using the last 25% of the bend on full throttle to power out of the bent (sliding the rear end and leaving a nice big darky......)

The key is - the downward shifts, are done before the turn using he clutch, to first, idle (or increasing throttle) round the corner, the clutchless shifts as you accelerate towards the next bend

Sorry, just having a bit of a laugh.

Try Motogymkhana - www.motogymkhana.org and you will learn how to corner, sharply and fast, and it's cheaper than doing a School track day....

Neil

Ps. B is the answer but you need to scrub speed, the front brake is the key - not the rear.
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[HD]

[Babba]

[SirToU]

Half way between one extreme and the other? It varies between bikes.

But basically, it's just beyond the biting point. Providing some drive, but not fully released.

Slipping the clutch is the technical reference.

Neil
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Ride it like it was stolen.
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2012 Motogymkhana UK Series Champion

[Acemastr]

er... I've never come across a corner that I can't take in 2nd? I can't imagine slipping the clutch around a corner is going to be a great idea, stand the bike up if it's that slow.
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[robocog]

I am not yet a riding god nor an expert- but I have read "Twist of the Wrist II" and I trust mr Code has done his research and knows his onions and whatnot

From what I have gather "Ideally"...You want to be slightly accellerating throughout cornering to maintain a stable front to rear balance so setting up your entry speed and position should be done and dusted before the bike tips in

The physics are explained quite well in the book and it is an interestng & insightful read

Regards
Rob
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[kawashima]

I must go work now.. Sorry I can't respond now. Thanks I read this thread again when I come home.
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own:2020 Serow 250
owned: 2012 YB125SP, 2008 TDM900, 2005 W650, 2002 LS125R, 2002 CB400SF, NS50F, C50 / Trip to UK(2009), Hokkaido touring(2013)

[Teflon-Mike]

Which is 'quicker'?

If you have time to think about it, and what level of clutch slip you are using, you obviously ENT going that quick at all!

But sod speed; go for SMOOTH.. get smooth, speed comes as a by-product.

Ideally you want the clutch engaged, and to be doing it all on the throttle. Work on smoothness, and you may find you have to use a bit of clutch slip to keep the motor out of the lumpy bit at the bottom of the rev range, at lower speeds, but as you develop that smoothness, speed ought to increase and you find you are going quick enough you aren't IN that lumpy rev region, so no need to clutch slip.
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[garth]

Where's the option for locking up the rear on the way into the tight corner, and clutching it up on the way out?
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[kawashima]

[chris-red]

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

Hi Kawashima-san, After watching your video I think that how you actually turn the bike is good. A good line.

I'd say you left your braking a bit too late and that includes the downshifts. Speaking of which you need to practice them. Takes time on the bike to get proficient at blipping the throttle whilst on the front brake. However, I do know the TDM has soft suspension so that exaggerates the fork movement on your video.(and your headlight beam dipping made it look worse than it actually was)

As for using the rear brake in the turn. Well, when I take a pillion, then yes I like to use the rear on very slow tight turns. Bike feels stable. Braking from a higher speed and into a corner I rarely use the rear brake. I like the bike to pull me through the corner

Feathering (Slip) the clutch..Oh yes it all goes on when you have a big twin with 'Interesting fuelling'. A 30mph 90 degree corner on my 944 twin will involve some light feathering. Unlike the 250 2 strokes I see racing..Those clutchplates must be sizzling in their baskets.

Theory of riding I know quite well yet I struggle with so many things with my riding, and that's why I love it. Yet some things I had issues with have gone, so must be making some progress albeit at a slow pace.
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[kawashima]