Bye Bye Scotland

[kawakid]

I don't know how to think about this tbh. Cameron is trying to force a "legal" referendum in the next 18 months.

Whilst the Scottish Nationalists are wanting a referendum in 3 years time (The end of 2014).

My guess is Cameron is wanting rid of Scotland to make tory elections in England a much more likely scenario. He only has 1 MP in Scotland, so it is no loss to him.

It's going to be weird when Scotland does become independent,.

I can see soo many problems. I work in IT, we have sites in Scotland, financial systems/payroll systems etc will have to be modified to work with dual currencies.

What will happen to Scottish customers of English banks, when their £ get converted in to a new currency €?, who will define who is Scottish, (By living in Scotland, or born in Scotland??).

On a plus point, I'm only a couple of hours from the border. Scotland might become much more fun for the English/Welsh biker, as we won't get points on our licenses for speeding up there, just like it is in Ireland At the moment I find Scotland a police state for Speed Cameras!!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-16478121
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I've a twin and a 4.

[Im-a-Ridah]

Not quite, IMO.

Salmond wants to delay any referendum until he can drum up enough anti-English sentiment to win it, and to manipulate the question in his favour. The British government want to ensure it's a fair and straight question, and that the referendum happens ASAP (since there is no reason to delay it). The question is quite simple, stay in or leave. Salmond wants some complex question which he wins from regardless of the outcome.

Cameron is against Scottish independence, so the idea that he is trying to get rid of Scotland is not correct IMO.

My personal view is there should be two referendums, one for the Scottish people on independence, and one for the rest of the UK on them remaining in the union. My other personal view is Scotland can GTFO because I'm tired of their whining. I'd also like an in/out EU referendum at the same time, to save paper ect

[fire]

I agree Scotland will be a lot more appealing when its not associated with the English.

Also, Iran and its allies will only bomb the shit out of you come WW3.

And then hopefully Traffic Police will be transferred to border control.

Cant wait.
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Write off! Honda NSR150 RR ('01) - Sold Cagiva Mito Evolution ('00) - Sold Honda NSR125 ('01) - Current Gasgas TXT 250 ('98) - Sold Kawasaki Z750 ('10) - Write off! Yamaha FZ1 ('09) - Current Ducati Streetfighter 848 ('14)

[UrbanRacer]

[fatpies]

[stinkwheel]

Salmond wants Scottish independance, he obviously thinks 2014 is his best chance of getting as yes vote in a referrendum. They stood for election on this basis and were elected with an overwhelming majority in a PR election system (which is something that does not easily happen).

I find this interesting. He is obviously very confident in the abilities of his government and confident he will still have the confidence of the electorate towards the end of a parliamentary term.

It is also clear to me that Salmond has a strong mandate from the Scottish electorate to do this. It's is the primary reason for his party to exist and a majority of Scots voted for them.

Cameron does not want devolution. It seems to me that he is worried Salmond knows something he doesn't and is of the oppinion that if he asks the question now in a format of his choosing, the result will go the way he wants it to.

Interesting point is that while Cameron IS the UK prime minister, there is only ONE Tory MP in the whole of Scotland. Some might ask the question about where exactly his mandate to speak on behalf of the people of Scotland actually comes from.

There is a whole lot of debate over whether the Scottish parliament have the power to hold a binding referrendum on independance without an act of the UK parliament allowing them to.

Constitutionally, they can't. That said. If the SNP carried out an open and democratic referrendum on the subject (they are free to hold a referrendum on anything they want) and the people of Scotland voted for independance even by a slim majority, the result would be upheld internationally. Other countries would recognise Scottish soverignty even if Wesminster or the courts disagreed and didn't want them to.

There is plenty of interrnational prescedent for this. Happened with Malta which ceeded from the UK. Happened with Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania which ceeded from the USSR without its consent. Happened with the former Yugoslavian states despite the vehement, prolonged and violent objections of Coratia. The international community supported all of these independance bids.

My oppinion. Cameron has just played right into the hands of Alex Salmond. He has absolutely no idea how much the Tory party are still hated in Scotland (and I wouldn't say hate is too strong a word). Especially when they start dictating to the Scots in matters which are none of their busines. Their arrogance astounds me and it will backfire. He's basically saying "You all may have voted for this party but it's MY country and I'll say what you can ask and when.". It isn't going down well.

It may even be part of Alex Salmonds master plan because he's a shrewd operator, he could have anticipated this happening from the start. Say whatever else you like about him, he's no fool and comes across as a leader much better than either of the clowns in Downing Street. He'd take them apart in an open debate, they'd land up playing the "It's my ball so my rules." card and lose all credability.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[temeluchus]

Scotland would have to cut back on the deep fried heroin.
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Some shite cruiser. Now with guns and FREEDOM!

[Rogerborg]

The SNP's proposed referendum questions are a complete scam, designed to split the unionist vote between "no change" and "more devolved powers" while all the loons who think that Braveheart was a documentary will vote "GET OOT!"

Scotland is an economic basket case infested with the genetic dross left behind after the brightest and best emigrated. Over 50% of workers are employed by the State, and Labour and the SNP are engaged in a race to raise that number even higher by pandering to the slackers, wasters and parasites. The SNP are essentially staunch Eurozone communists.

When the North Sea revenues tail off - and that's if we've got the stomach to defend them - then Scotland is finished as a first world State. Good luck keeping the shuffling hordes of beggars out, England.

And that's the brightest spin that I can put on it.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

If Scotland's so great, why do so many of them live down here?
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[mistergixer]

[yen_powell]

[Rogerborg]

[kawakid]

[Rogerborg]

Just to be clear, Scottish "independence" under the SNP would mean becoming completely subsumed into the EU.

The UK has retained some vetos; a newly independent Jockland wouldn't even try to get any, we'd just roll over and wriggle.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[stinkwheel]

One thing I've noticed in the debates today is that there are quite a few politicians campaigning against having a referrendum at all.

That sort of thing gets right on my wick. They are basically saying "We don't want to ask the question because the people can't be trusted give the correct answer. That answer being whatever I think.".

Given how a referrendum is pretty much the ultimate form of democracy available to people in the UK, I find that attitude disgraceful. Especially when it's not really possible to have a clearer mandate on the issue.

This applies as much to the EU as it does to Scottish independance.

A politician campaigning against a referrendum which carries any reasonable amount of popular support should really take a long hard look at himself and consider what his job actually is and what he thinks he is doing in parliament.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[fatpies]

[D O G]

I believe that any referendum should be open to all of us in the United Kingdom, it is not solely a Scottish issue.

I would particularly welcome this, given that it would increase the likelihood of independence being 'won'.

[tatters]

I,m all for Scottish independence as long as they forcibly make Wales independant too, Most of Wales is one big leeching council estate we would also get rid of the DVLA which is a added bonus.
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Rogerborg]

[Visitor Q]

After years of "we're all British" "No, we're fucking not! I'm Scottish/Welsh/Northern Irish, you blackened fucking tan" etc, I hope you get your independence and curl up into the financial suicide that will follow mere months later...

You cock gobbling thunder cunts.
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From September 2014 to January/February 2015 I will not be using any English, nor reading any. As such, I won't be on here. PM at will, but I won't be checking/posting unless in emergencies. Certainly not for the first couple of months. Please berate me savagely if I break that rule...

[tatters]

The main reason Scotland took part in the Acts of Union was becasue they had bankrupt them selfs after there trading colonys in the America,s failed, thinking they could become a world trading power but ended up going begging bowl in hand to England to stabilize there economy.

Looking at them now i can see that happing again but this time begging to the EU for hand outs.
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Wafer_Thin_Ham]

[stinkwheel]

[tatters]

[stinkwheel]

I have to wonder, if it was such a bad deal then, why did the English go through such machinations in order to achieve a union? Including bribery, corruption, asassination, regicide and direct military action.

If it's such a bad deal now and Scotland are such a drain on UK finances. Why are the Tory party, who would be pretty much assured a working majority in any future UK elections if Scotland were removed, so vehemently and vocally opposed to Scotland breaking away from the Union. It would be no skin off their nose, they might stand to lose their Scottish seat.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.