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RS125/Rotax 122 crank oil seal pushed too far in? and more!

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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 14 Jan 2012    Post subject: RS125/Rotax 122 crank oil seal pushed too far in? and more! Reply with quote

The saga of the rebuild continues...
I've finally put the crank case back together.
Before I fitted the gearbox side oil seal, the crank turned fine.
When I pushed the seal in, I think I've pushed it in too far because there is now quite a bit of resistance when turning the crank.
Should I have left it flush with the case? ( I guess it's now rubbing against the crank bearing)

2nd question...
In the gasket set, there were 3 different thicknesses of cylinder base gaskets. I know they're to get optimum squish, but let's face it... the engine is in my Classic 125... so I wouldn't have thought it was that critical?
I have actually fitted the medium size one, but if the answer to my first question is "yes noob, pull the seal out and fit it properly!" then the cylinder etc will be coming back off so I can swap the gasket if need be.
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 14 Jan 2012    Post subject: Re: RS125/Rotax 122 crank oil seal pushed too far in? and mo Reply with quote

andy_uk wrote:
2nd question...
In the gasket set, there were 3 different thicknesses of cylinder base gaskets. I know they're to get optimum squish, but let's face it... the engine is in my Classic 125... so I wouldn't have thought it was that critical?


With the older 127 engines the compression was high enough as standard that fitting a thinner base gasket than calculated would put the compression up to the extent that a holed piston was likely.

All the best

Keith
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 00:39 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Re: RS125/Rotax 122 crank oil seal pushed too far in? and mo Reply with quote

Kickstart wrote:

With the older 127 engines the compression was high enough as standard that fitting a thinner base gasket than calculated would put the compression up to the extent that a holed piston was likely.

All the best

Keith


Ah...
I may be tempted to go for the thicker one...just in case.
Thanks for that Smile
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Kickstart
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PostPosted: 00:45 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Suspect yours would be OK with this. The old ones were very high compression and needed high octane fuel as standard.

All the best

Keith
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Mikey CB500
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PostPosted: 02:02 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since fitting the crank back int the casings and fitting tha casing back together have you, trued up the crank to make sure its centeral? That would be the first thing id suspect with it being hard to turn that its seated further one side than the other.
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 02:27 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikey CB500 wrote:
Since fitting the crank back int the casings and fitting tha casing back together have you, trued up the crank to make sure its centeral? That would be the first thing id suspect with it being hard to turn that its seated further one side than the other.


Yeah, I made that mistake first time...I didn't press the magneto side bearing in far enough first time and as soon as I started to tighten the case bolts up the crank started to bind.
The 2nd attempt was fine. The crank turned very easily until I pushed the gearbox side oil seal in.
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Mikey CB500
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PostPosted: 11:43 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

No its nothing about the bearings being seated properly. If you havent trued you crank up (which you obviously havent as you dont know what I mean) I would get on with it and do it as this could be whats most likely causing the rubbing. Plus if you try to run it without the crank trued up then ther is possibility of a damaged top end and bent con rod and youd be lucky to not bugger the crank up also.
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you mean the axial clearance?
I did check that and put a .3mm shim on the magneto side.
Although I haven't measured the gaps between each side of the crank the the case (they do look even to the eye, but I'll check it with feeler gauges when I go back down to the lockup).

If you didn't mean the above, then please explain...as I haven't seen anything else regarding trueing up the crank.
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 13:11 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It can't help but be central - enough so it makes no odds anyway.

The bloody crank is a tight fit in these, tight on the bearings and the bearings are tight in the case - personally, I think it's excessive and I can find no good reason for it.

Try putting a snug-fitting packer in between the crank webs opposite the big end pin (which you really should have done before pressing it in) and then giving each end of the crank a stout crack with a plastic hammer. turn it to see if it's improved and if it has give it another clout each way until it frees up. If it doesn't improve don't continue and don't whatever you do use a steel hammer.
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Mikey CB500
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PostPosted: 13:12 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Although I haven't measured the gaps between each side of the crank the the case (they do look even to the eye, but I'll check it with feeler gauges when I go back down to the lockup).


Thats exactly how you true a crank up, messure the clearance between the crank and casing either side, if its not equal then using a copper/soft hide/ or plastic hammer (as to not damag3e the crank) give it a tap in the dirrection it needs to move (I say a tap but if your using the above hammers you can belt it and not do any damage, and you might find its that tight in the bearings that you have to give it quite some persuasion). A un-trued up crank will not roll free in the bearings at all as its rubbing against the casings and creating a great deal of friction.

Ive seen no end of bodge me up home rebuilds suffer from damage from missing out thee truing up stage, mainly RS and Mito engines which have been rebuild by a back street garage cheaply and wrongly. seeing a snapped con rod hanging out the front of a RS crankcasings really is nasty, renders the majority of the engine as scrap.
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 14:14 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Pete / Mikey,
It's certainly not catching against the casing and like I said, it spun with no friction after I had torqued up the crankcase bolts. I was a little heavy handed with the oil seal...
Having said that, I'll check the clearances when I get down to the lockup.
What tolerance is allowed between the 2 measurements? (if any)
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Mikey CB500
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PostPosted: 14:35 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You really want it to be as equal each side as possible, and it should roll perfectly freely. Another thing is the seal too small and causing friction?
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Pete.
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PostPosted: 14:39 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If it turned freely before fitting the seal, then the seal is the fault so leave the crank alone. You're faced with either splitting the cases or pulling out the seal by destroying it and fitting a new one. I know which I would rather do.
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 15 Jan 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mikey CB500 wrote:
You really want it to be as equal each side as possible, and it should roll perfectly freely. Another thing is the seal too small and causing friction?

The seal seems to be the the right size - the magneto side one hasn't appeared to have caused much friction.

Pete. wrote:
If it turned freely before fitting the seal, then the seal is the fault so leave the crank alone. You're faced with either splitting the cases or pulling out the seal by destroying it and fitting a new one. I know which I would rather do.

Yes... me too Smile For the sake of a couple of quid the crank case is staying in one piece Wink
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