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| JackDaniels |
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JackDaniels
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| Wafer_Thin_Ham |
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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 Posted: 05:18 - 17 Jan 2012  Post subject: |
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Yep you can carry a pillion. Would be like named drivers in cars not being able to carry passengers. 
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| ms51ves3 |
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ms51ves3
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| Pete. |
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Pete.
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| Posted: 07:02 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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If it's not specifically excluded I don't see why not.
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132.9mph off and walked away. Gear is good, gear is good, gear is very very good  |
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arry
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 07:50 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: Re: Pillion Cover as a named rider ? |
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If you have a full (A or A <= 25kW) license, and it's not specifically excluded by the policy then yes, there's no reason why not.
However, read the certificate of insurance and the full policy document, don't just ass-u-me.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| JackDaniels |
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JackDaniels
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| P. |
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P.
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| c-m |
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c-m
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| blurredman |
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blurredman
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| Posted: 09:22 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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| c-m wrote: | | ms51ves3 wrote: |
It's not though because you don't have to pay for extra insurance to take passengers in a car. |
You don't have to pay extra to carry pillions either.
Insurers offer you extra pillion cover. If you reject it, you aren't excluded from carrying pillions. And they can still claim as a 3rd party. |
So if they ask do you want pillion cover and you say no..
Then you're still able to take pillions but they cannot claim if an accident occurs?
It's such annoyingly complicated ground.
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 50k. |
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| Dean-J |
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Dean-J
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 09:48 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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Please be very careful about this.
It may vary from insurer to insurer. The cases that I've seen, the insurer has made it a condition of the insurance that you agree not to carry a pillion. If you agree to that, it will form part of your contract with them.
The vehicle will show as insured on the MID, so it's unlikely that Plod will check, but we have seen them running stings where they check for commuting use on insurance (so the answer to "Off to work are we sir?", is "No comment" or "None of your business, Jackboots.")
In the event of a claim, it could get interesting. I believe that the insurer is likely to be obliged to pay out to third parties including your pillion, but they may then come after you to recover their payout.
tl;dr version: if you're offered a policy that asks you to agree not to take a pillion, and you want to take a pillion, don't reward them with your money.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 10:07 - 17 Jan 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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| c-m |
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c-m
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:15 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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| c-m wrote: | Contracts cannot infringe on rights dictated by statute. |
A driving license gives you the "right" to carry passengers for hire or reward. Does that mean that you can agree to a contract to provide insurance for social, domestic and pleasure purposes only, and then start minicabbing?
Sweet, who'd have thought it. I guess we can all stop wasting our money on "commuting" or "business use" contracts, just go for the cheapest insurance, and tell Plod and the insurers to sling their hook.
Just before we all do that though, can you cite the case law backing up your assertion?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
Last edited by Rogerborg on 10:46 - 17 Jan 2012; edited 1 time in total |
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| c-m |
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c-m
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 10:56 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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| c-m wrote: | You misunderstand. |
I doubt it, but citing an Indian case is hardly likely to enlighten me.
So, doing hire or reward with a contract of insurance that only covers social, domestic or pleasure use? Yes, or no?
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| iooi |
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iooi
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| c-m |
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c-m
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| Posted: 11:46 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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Guys, engage brain.
An insurer can't take away any liberty you have under statue.
That doesn't mean they need to cover you for liabilities not included in your contract (policy document or certificate) - however, likewise they can't shirk any responsibilities by law, they have to third parties.
Hope that helps your understanding.
Now a pillion, like any other road user can claim from you as a third party should you injure them.
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| pits |
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pits
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Posted: 13:13 - 17 Jan 2012  Post subject: |
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| c-m wrote: | Guys, engage brain.
An insurer can't take away any liberty you have under statue.
That doesn't mean they need to cover you for liabilities not included in your contract (policy document or certificate) - however, likewise they can't shirk any responsibilities by law, they have to third parties.
Hope that helps your understanding.
Now a pillion, like any other road user can claim from you as a third party should you injure them. |
He is right you know.
When I took my policy out I specifically asked for pillion coverage, it wasn't on the policy, but I had gained riding other bikes and commuting, ran through it with the guy on the phone.
Basically you have a right to carry a pillion, a third party company can not stipulate your rights nor can they take them away from you because of what a document says.
I don't have pillion cover, I take pillion sometimes, it works like this
No pillion cover means I am still legal to carry a pillion, as it is my right by law to carry a pillion, law will always overshadow a non-law 3rd party company.
In the event of an accident I am still legally covered, they cover the pillion at 3rd party and 3rd party only, so the pillion can claim off your insurance company for any damages.
The difference between pillion cover having it Vs not having it is this.
Insurance company will pay out for pillion damages if you have it, then you both carry on with your lives
Insurance company will pay out for pillion damages if you don't have it, then they will come and pursue you for the costs they have incurred for paying out on the pillion damage.
That is exactly what I was told over the phone, that is what others have been told
Someone who I gather works in the insurance business
| Quote: | It's a bit of a grey area this. Effectively the insurance co can not legally exclude the pillion from cover, so they will pay out for any injury they incur as a Third party in an accident. They will no tvoid your policy, as the remainder of it will remian in force. However, and this is the killer for you, if you are at fault in any accident, then this will be deemed to be causation and as you excluded pillion cover, the insurance company will look to recover their costs & expenses from you.
To give you a handle on this we currently have people paying us back for accidents from the 70s at over £10,000 per year and this could carry on for life for at least one of them. A seriously injured pillion could be looking at a pay out to replace their lifetime potential income and this will be coming out of your pocket. |
So yes carry on, no legal requirement for it, they can't revoke your policy, you wont get 6 points, only issue arises when you stuff it with a pillion, if the policy strictly says no pillion then I wouldn't.
Ring up your insurers, they will say what I have said above, they can not take away a legal right, it is whether they choose to cover you for that legal right.
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00:32:08 Blau Zedong: yes, i am a massive CB400 fan and collector
00:33:00 Blau Zedong: the CB400 is my favourite road bike |
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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arry
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| pits |
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pits
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Posted: 14:27 - 17 Jan 2012  Post subject: |
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| arry wrote: |
He's not.
An insurer is NOT taking away your liberty by not allowing you to take a pillion passenger. Because they're NOT stopping you from taking a pillion passenger. |
So he is right? As that is what we have both said, they can't stop you from riding with one, because it isn't illegal.
| arry wrote: |
You're quite correct that the insurer cannot ignore their liability to the third party (either the pillion or the poor muppet you've run over) but that doesn't mean you have a valid contract of insurance and are 'insured'. |
No it does, ring your insurance company up. You are insured, if you have an accident with a pillion you're insured, it is the pillion who isn't, their contract means nothing when it comes to your legal rights.
You're the one who took the policy out
You're the one who had the accident
You're still insured
You as a third party can NOT control the law, they are not covering your pillion, but they can not deem you to be illegal when you are being perfectly legal.
What is so hard to understand?
You're insured
You're legally allowed to carry a pillion
A 3rd party can NOT stipulate the law and make it suit them.
Your contract between the insurance company and yourself is of no relevance to the police unless you're riding illegaly, lets say you're on a restricted licence and have insured a GSXR750 that isn't restricted, but told the insurance company it is, now your policy is void because you have commited an offence, as you're not allowed to ride the bike in question BY LAW! Carrying a pillion is a legal right BY LAW! They can not void your policy for doing something you're legally allowed to do.
The only thing they can do is chase you for the payment of cost incurred by them in the event of an accident, why can you not understand that?
Instead of arguing the toss, why not ring your insurance company? See what they tell you, I am pretty sure that they will say exactly what I have said, as that is what two insurance companies have told me, as well as the quote above which is from someone who works in an insurance company, even at the end of this I have no idea what point you were trying to make, as it just seemed to disagree with two of us on face value with the opening line, then say exactly what we have said.
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00:32:08 Blau Zedong: yes, i am a massive CB400 fan and collector
00:33:00 Blau Zedong: the CB400 is my favourite road bike |
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| arry |
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arry
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| Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg
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| Posted: 17:17 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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| pits wrote: |
What is so hard to understand?
You're insured
You're legally allowed to carry a pillion
A 3rd party can NOT stipulate the law and make it suit them. |
You're insured (for Social Domestic and Pleasure purposes only).
You're legally allowed to take passengers for hire and reward.
A 3rd party can NOT stipulate the law and make it suit them (so you're covered to run a minicab business, screw you copper, fight the power and so on).
Yes or no?
Coppers will say no, resoundingly no. We've read here about them nabbing bikes for not having "commuting" cover, and I recall a lady being done for delivering some sandwiches without business cover on her policy.
I don't necessarily agree with it, or think that it'll hold up in court, but please be careful about making "Let's you and him fight" statements that could get trusting types into trouble.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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| salty21 |
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salty21
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| Posted: 18:21 - 17 Jan 2012 Post subject: |
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i had this discussion on my renewal aswell. He asked if i wanted pillion insurance, so i asked if i could take a pillion without the extra cover and he gave me a flat no, if i was going to be carrying a pillion then i would legally need the extra cover to allow me to do so.
I dont know if this was just something he was saying to get me to cough up the extra £10 though but i paid it anyway just for piece of mind
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04 NSR 125(sold)  ---- 03 CBR 600rr(sold)  ----90 pan euro ST1100 ' ' ----02 CG 125
94 CB400 Super Four ---- 2000 VTR SP1 (sold) ---- 08 ninja p8f(sold, meh) ----05 CBR600rr |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 13 years, 194 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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