Struggling to convince mum and dad....

[McfcChris94]

They are fine with me geting a bike

but they are wanting me to buy a brand new bike and i want a second hand one so this keeps forcing us into disagreements....

My argument is that the ones i want are tried and tested, cheaper, usually well looked after, wont lose value.

Their argument for getting a brand new bike is, their is a warranty so im safe, they know iv not bought a "death trap" as the factory cant have damaged it...

Im sick of trying to convince them that second hand can be safe if i know exactly what to go for, might go off my own back in my decision and advice in what to do in this circumstance?

i know nothing about the mechanics and i think that is their fear, they are scared il buy something thats going to break after a few weeks as i have no "comeback" to the seller at all, whereas i do with a shop....

HELP

[JoeDougieDoug...]

Why not get a second hand bike from a dealership or trader instead of buying from private ads? It'll come with a warranty as your parents wants (Usually only 3 or 6 months though, it being second hand) and it should be fully serviced and inspcted before you get it. Be prepared to pay over-the-odds though.

Hope this helps.
____________________
CBT Passed - 22 / 10 / 11 >> Theory Passed - 16 / 02 / 2012 >> Mod 1 Passed - 07 / 03 / 2012 >> Mod 2 Passed - 18 / 05 / 2012.

[mickfulton]

What bike is safer .....a 2 year old bike from a 'known' manufacturer, or a new bike made by some unknown company based in the back of beyond ?

answer: fuck knows.



Hope this helps.
____________________
Current half-cars :2004 SV650, VX535 1991
Exes: YBR 125 2007,GPZ500S 1998

[nowhere.elysium]

[jasond]

ask them if they'll pay for a new one as you can't afford to....
____________________
1st bike Suzuki EN 125-2 (to break me in) Current bike Honda CBR 400 RR

[chris-red]

If they want you to buy a new chinese bike I'm sure someone can link you to some threads where it shows chinky bikes that have fallen apart before the first MoT. One member even have a frame snap on a bike.

Chinese bikes are shit, a used jap bike will be far superior.

Whose money is it? if it is yours tell them to do one.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[Andy_Pagin]

[Teflon-Mike]

Who'se paying the piper?

If Mum & Dad want you to have a brand new bike, and THEY are fronting the money; GO WITH IT!

I suspect the arguments may be that they are looking at Chinese bikes at £1000 mark and thinking that makes more sense, or are looking at 'mundane' 125's like a YBR or a CBF, where you probably want the more exspensive and posey YZF-R125 or CBR125, or an XL or an XT..... so I am guessing.

Brand new is NICE.... and starting out, BEST wheels you can possibly put under your bum, when you NEED as good as you can get, so that the bike isn't doing anything it shouldn't while you work out what you ought to be doing.

And if you aren't paying for it, or are getting a big subsidy for that 'bunus'? You'd be a fool to fight them over it.

Mundane bikes? Yeah, they aren't that inspiring; but starting out, neither will your riding, and the 'extra' posey bikes offer really isn't worth the premium; if you want something 'more' get your licence, and get a big bike, that can be as inspiring as you want.

Parents are parents; & the 'usual' parental antagonism is 'Not while you are Under My roof'..... if you actually have them on-board, and HELPING..... FFS.... take the gift, and ENJOY it, and THANK them for it.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[chris-red]

Countless people on this forum have had used leaner bikes and not had an issue with them. My first bike was a 20 year old £250 RXS, in a year I did 10 thousand miles on it and it didn't want for anything, I moved onto bigger bikes and it was left in the garden. Five years later I took the cover of it, hardly any rust, I gave it a quick service one afternoon and a splash of fresh petrol and it kicked straight back into life. Now my mate is using it still going strong, to this day I don't think it has had any issues.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[McfcChris94]

forgot to mention this, ima make it stand out to help a little -- my own error here folks sorry,



I have the money, it is my own, about £1000 and they are willing to give me another £500 to get my leathers/textile,helmet ect

Sorry for that, my money


i have emailed some dealers about used bikes and i have pulled a cheeky one saying i will be paying full cash, so will they negotiate a price
least they can do is this

[chris-red]

[harscot]

Hey it's great that your parents are ok about you getting a Bike, even more so if they are paying for it.. like the rest above I think there looking at chinese bikes which should be avoided at all costs. Maybe you should suggest that they go with you to a dealers to look at 2nd hand bikes, get good info from the dealer which might put there mind at ease, hopefully....good luck

[Rogerborg]

Point them at your other thread, where the one Lexmoto bike that I wouldn't advise against was immediately slated by two other posters.

By the way, add £71 to the sticker price from Lexmoto, for first registration and tax. Their cheapest bikes are ~£920, not ~£850. Budget (and I am quite serious) for Loctite, spring washers and a fuel filter, at a minimum.

Then you pay for it and the value immediately drops to £700 at the most. You've lost over £200 before you're even out of their yard. You could spend another £200 on a used bike and still come out just as well off in the long term, and it'll take a lot longer to reduce in value to the £500 bottom line for any working, MOT'd 125.

Whether the "2 year warranty" is worth a penny is entirely down to your local dealer. Don't believe a word that the salesweasel says, get your dad to call them up and say that he's got a problem with the bike that he bought 18 months ago, and see how far he gets.

As for problems out of factory, your Lexmoto is shipped in a crate and then put together by some local YTS spanner monkey, doubtless with a fag in one hand and a mobile clamped to his ear trying to persuade Shazza to let him do her up the back alley (behind Tesco). Be sure to tell your mum that.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Teflon-Mike]

Well, that's a BOLD statement.
So all up budget £1500, and 1/3 of it Parental contribution, so not ALL your own money....

£1000 ear-marked for a bike; yeah, you will struggle to find anything 'new' that isn't chinese.... in-fact you'll struggle to find anything 'new' that isn't Chinese at ANY budget in the 125 market these days unless you buy a Hyosung.

You are JUST into used YBR money there, or older ragged the arse out of and crash-worn CBR's.

Tricky.

So we have to convince Parents that New 'Generic' Lexmoto or Chinray 'bike-in-a-box' crap is really NOT worth the money, and sell them on a better used YBR...

Get mum or Dad to read this:-

Mum/Dad.... I'm 41, no fly ny night teenager; I've been riding thirty odd years, and am still alive to tell the tale. If your lad has a little commom sense and enough self restraint to not loose his cool when he has a twist grip in his hand... he CAN likewise survive a long time and not come to any major harm.

I was an instructor for about five years, & have seen enough learners and enough learner bikes to know that the ideas behind putting him on a 'new' bike are 'right'.

A New bike, is best wheels you can putr under his bum; they dont wobble around or do anything they shouldn't when he needs all the advantages he can get as a wobbly learner not knowing what he's doing, and having to worry whether any particular wobble is becouse of something he is doing wrong, or something the bikes not doing right.

BUT; the Chinese 'bike in a box' deals that giove you a 125 for under a grand are NOT 'new' bikes.

Reason they are so cheap is they are imported as 'mororcycle parts' to avoid new vehicle taxes, and technically are 'self assembled' and then registered as a personal registration, again to avoid imnport taxes, but also registration costs, exploiting a 'loop-hole' in the law that exempts 'new vehicles' being subject to Type Approval, where a 'self built vehicle' OUGHT to be subject to expensive single vehicle approval; the importer providing a recipt declaring it a 'new vehicle'.

They really ARE sub-standard crap; and many models are notoriousely poor; some wouldn't even pass an MOT straight out of the crate.

These are NOT, good 'new' bikes.

There are some 'better' ones out there; but you need to know your mechanics to live with them, and do a lot of preventative maintenence to keep them running well, that and horendouse depreciation on resale value makes them VERY expensive to own, even if they AREN'T as 'bad' as thier reputation suggests.

The £799 price tag, is deflated, becouse you then discover that there is a £150 delivery charge on top, AND £75 registration fee, and you have to buy a £20 number plate, making it a £1025 bike 'On The Road', and many dont even get THAT far, getting lost in the tangle of red tape to get the bike registered.

The bike is then instantly worth no more than £500 second hand, even if in perfect working condition; but most as said give sporodic service for up to three years when faced with the first MOT, they simplyu wont pass, and are sold on for £50 or so as 'scrap' or given away.

They are NOT worth the money; and they unfortunately do NOT proviode the confidence you are looking for.

To get THAT, you would have to look at the cheaper Japanese 'branded' bikes, like the Suzuki EN125 made in Barcelona from components made in China, or the Yamaha YBR125, made in China from parts made in China, or the Honda CBF125, made in India from parts made in India and China.....

A lot of Chinese Content in these bikes, but MUCH better quality control, these bikes DO offer the confidence you seek.

BUT you pay for it.

YBR125 is a shade over £2,500 in the show-room. EN125 a tad less I think, CBF quite a bit more.

Best Value Learner-Commuter at the moment is the Yamaha YBR125. Brand new, the deprteciation is a bit steep and you would loose £700 moment you wheeled one out of the show room.

But at 3 years old, with the first MOT passed they are a GOOD bike.

Bikes are MOT exempt for the first three years; they can be ridden into the ground and never checked for safety.

So at just over three years old, you get a bike with an MOT to say it's still 'Good', with the biggest hit of depreciation taken by first owners.

Between three and five years old, these bikes ought to still have plenty of thier natural service life left in them, yet have lost more £ value than they have 'life', still be pretty 'tight' as far as ride ability goes, and not developed too many faults or problems, so they should still ride nicely, and be reasonably reliable and not need a lot of maintenence or repairs.

Typical prices for such a bike thoiugh are 'around' £1250, give or take, and for the confidence you want, finding a BIT more money, to find a three or four year old YBR, possibly paying the premium to get one from a dealers, that with maybe a 3-month warranty, might cost as much as £1600, WOULD give the confidence you 'expect', but will NOT get from a Lexmoto or 'Direct Bikes' chinese self registration bike.

And it will hold it's value.

Where you are at; you will be arguing with the boy over the Chinese tat vs a lot of second hand Japanese 'tat' in the 'up to £1000' price bracket. Where unfortunately neither of you will be right, and both of you will!

Adding 'just' a bit more cash to the pot WOULD make a very big difference and give him a MUCH better chance to find a 'good' machine to do what you would like for him.

BUT it would be money well spent, and IF the lad has sense, he'll get on, and get trained as soon as he can after CBT and get his full licence in his pocket ASAP to prove he can ride it properly and get himself out of the biggest danger zone of being an L-Plater... but that costs too.... but its money that can be recouped when he has his licence, becouse 125's are in demand, and the high buy prices mean high sell prices, on bikes that ARE worth having, and you ought to be able to sell for close on whats been paid.

I cant tell you what to do or where to go; but £1000 is NOT a great budget to go looking for a 125 with, certainly not a 'good' 125, and the Chinese generic brand bikes only offer 'falce-hope', not propper solutions.

Steering clear of sporty bikes, or posey bikes; buying a humble uninspiring Japanese 'Learner-Commuter', is the 'Sensible' option, and a new-ish one, with early life MOT, the MOST sensible....

So, thanks for supporting the lad, always good to have newbies come in with support rather than resentment; and your ideas are sound and could help the lad on the 'best' path... it just needs a little added research to find the flaws and pitfals around them to avoid putting him onto a looser with all the best intensions.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Andy_Pagin]

[harscot]

Hi bud, What Teflon-Mike has said makes profound sense, so take his advise and show his comment to your parents, a good dealer should reiterate what he's told you..best of luck

[chris-red]

You could do worse to convince them than showing them your threads on here, get them to have a read what experienced bikers think of these little chinky death traps.
____________________
Well, you know what they say. If you want to save the world, you have to push a few old ladies down the stairs.
Skudd:- Perhaps she just thinks you are a window licker and is being nice just in case she becomes another Jill Dando.
WANTED:- Fujinon (Fuji) M42 (Screw on) lenses, let me know if you have anything.

[GrumpyGuts]

If I were you, I'd get a used Yamaha YBR 125. If you are planning on getting a used bike, get a used Japanese bike. Get your parents to read this: If the bike is in good condition, decent age (2009 +) and AT LEAST 6 months MOT, then you should be happy. I've seen dealers on ebay selling these bikes for around £1,600 and they are normally 2010 models with full service, MOT and Tax.

The YBR is a fantastic learner bike. I trained on it when I did my CBT, albeit it being smashed up from previous students (even I fell off it LOL)

[_Iain_]

Also worth remembering that boots, leathers/textiles or whatever can be picked up 2nd hand/clearance from ebay or whatever. Helmet however ive been advised to never, ever EVER buy a used one. Only new, and only from a shop where they can fit it propperly for you!

Might be worth doing that - as even if it saves you £200 (and belive me you'll manage that if your dealership charges as much as my local does!) its still £200 extra into the bike.

Should you go 2nd hand YBR's are plenty about so you can afford to be picky - so they can come and view a few to make up their own minds on which was cleaner!

[Alex_B]

Oh and just a quick mention on the Chinky bike tires.

Tell Mum that come the rain, you wont be able to ride as they are BAD. So, add new rubber to the cost and things really are not looking so great.

Mum & Dad, please let him buy the bike HE wants
____________________
My Lane Position is always AWESOME!!

[Rogerborg]

Steady on, it depends on what they fit that day. I got reasonable Manlung tyres on my 'Vixen', but the Kenda ones are reportedly bad. But then again, the original tyres on the CBF125 were reportedly poor as well, so it's not just a Chinese-branded issue. Budget bikes have budget tyres.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[ninja_butler]

Andy_Pagin wrote:

McfcChris94 wrote: forgot to mention this, ima make it stand out to help a little -- my own error here folks sorry, I have the money, it is my own, about £1000 and they are willing to give me another £500 to get my leathers/textile,helmet ect Sorry for that, my money i have emailed some dealers about used bikes and i have pulled a cheeky one saying i will be paying full cash, so will they negotiate a price least they can do is this Does the 'ect' include insurance?

That's an important point, have you factored in the cost of insurance, CBT and provisional license?

CBT - £120 (varies)
Insurance - £500 (varies like crazy)
provisional license - £50.
Total = £670 or thereabouts.

And next you need the safety gear, but you can save a lot of money if you buy it secondhand. The only item you might need to buy new is the helmet, but you can usually tell when a secondhand helmet is damaged; you can't see cracks in the foam but there are always tell-tale signs on the shell (well, maybe not always but you can take the liner out and look inside).

** rough price guide for 2nd-hand ***
Leather jacket - £40
Leather trousers - £40
Gloves - £20
Boots - £50
Helmet (must be undamaged) £50
Total = £200

Which leaves you £630 to buy a motorcycle. The costs do add up a bit don't they! On the plus side, £600 is plenty enough to buy a decent 125cc commuter bike with a full year's T&T on it; you're not going to get a new bike for 600 quid but there are lots of old commuter/upright style bikes around for that money.

[Scythe]

Woah, didn't realise the prices of YBRs had gone up that much!

My rents bought me a new YBR in 2008, but it came with one years insurance, a HJC helmet and the CBT. It worked out cheaper to buy a new one than a second hand one, cracking deal!
____________________
2009 Yamaha YBR125 -> 2000 SV650S -> 2005 Kawasaki ZX6R 636

[Alex_B]

[Alpha-9]

Tell them you wannit know then stomp your feet, once that doesn't work threaten to call social services

If A and B fails there's plan C
Take some polaroids of yourself in your underwear and put them in your dads sock drawer, then play the waiting game