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Can i Carry a pillion?

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Hammasterchie...
L Plate Warrior



Joined: 05 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Can i Carry a pillion? Reply with quote

Hi guys,
I passed my test today Smile had fun taking off my L-plates, rang the insurance company and told them that I've now passed my test and have a full licence, was wondering whether i can carry a pillion legally, I mean if a copper pulls me over and i show him my pass certificate is this enough, do i need special insurance to avoid a fine, would my insurance be invalid, I'm not sure if it means my friend wouldn't be covered in an accident or it means that im driving without insurance (invalid) or something? Cheers
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ElliotReidMD
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe that some insurers make you stipulate you want to be covered for pillion carrying. Check your policy to be sure.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 20:20 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

You have a license to carry a pillion. It's no different from taking the L plates off.

Insurance, urgh. We've been back and forth on this a lot recently. My personal view is that you are satisfying the requirements of the Road Traffic Act even if your insurer tries to put a "no pillion" condition on your policy, and that they must pay out to your pillion (as a 3rd party) if you bin it.

However, your insurer and Plod will likely disagree with that, and a court may do, so it's your gamble. If you want to be sure, check your certificate of insurance and your policy documents, those are what matter.
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 21:35 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

It all depends on how heavy your pillion is and how strong your arms are Laughing
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Hammasterchie...
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PostPosted: 23:01 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the answers guys just found this on bikesure website who im insured through <https://www.bikesure.co.uk/faqs.php?catid=1&faqid=39> had to pay £44 for change of address and didnt think to ask them about pillion use, does this clearly state that i can carry a pillion no problem it sounds like it does? cheers
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Dean-J
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PostPosted: 23:16 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im insured with bikesure as of yesterday.
They specifically asked me if i carry a pillion or not when pricing up.

Got my docs through and it says on there that as i have been asked if i will EVER carry a pillion and have answered no, my insurance has been discounted and should i be involved in an accident when found to be carrying a pillion, i will NOT be covered.

I'd suggest reading through your docs carefully, and making your own decision!
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Dean-J
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PostPosted: 23:17 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Worth noting that the page you linked is just a general FAQ and not specific to your policy.
Bikesure are a broker, it will be the underwriter who specifies the terms and conditions of your policy, not bikesure.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely, ignore anything that's on the website or that you get told by some drongo over the phone, read your actual policy documents.

To clarify, it's very unlikely that they'll be able to avoid paying out to a pillion (as a 3rd party) but they may be able to sue you to get their money back. I don't believe it's been tested in court yet though, this "no pillion" tosh is fairly new.
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Hammasterchie...
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PostPosted: 23:35 - 07 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im not really sure how to find out should i get on the phone and ask if my insurance would be invalid if i carry a pillion, i just want to know if id be breaking the law carrying a pillion, and then if i am how i can change my policy so that i can have a passenger on board :/ do you think ill have to pay allot more if it needs to be changed?
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 00:33 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammasterchief wrote:
Im not really sure how to find out should i get on the phone and ask if my insurance would be invalid if i carry a pillion, i just want to know if id be breaking the law carrying a pillion, and then if i am how i can change my policy so that i can have a passenger on board :/ do you think ill have to pay allot more if it needs to be changed?


I'm currently with Rampdale. When I passed my test I phoned them up to inform them of my licence chance, then continued to ask whether I was covered to take pillions now.

Guy on the phone initially said "no" as I was on a provisional policy, but then quickly went "wait, hang on, yes you've passed your full test now haven't you. You're allowed to take pillions now yes".

When taking out my policy I didn't ask for pillion cover, but it's there anyway. When I've been getting insurance quotes there has actually (often) been no or very little different between choosing to cover pillions or not to cover pillions.

+1 to Roger too. Seen this question a couple of times on BCF now and the general consensus was what he has just told you.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 01:41 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, it's a case of taking away pillion cover to reduce the cost of insurance. Unless otherwise specified, if you're legally allowed to take them, pillions should be covered.

Note that you probably should call them and tell them you've passed your test as this is a chance of circumstance.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:35 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammasterchief wrote:
Im not really sure how to find out


Sorry, I'll try to clear it up:

READ YOUR CERTIFICATE OF INSURANCE AND ACCOMPANYING POLICY DOCUMENTS.

Those form the basis of the contract between yourself and the insurer. Don't believe anything that you get told on the phone, go by what you have in writing.

You're looking for a clause specifically disallowing the carrying of a pillion - this would be a condition that you've agreed to as part of the contract[1].

If that clause isn't there, then you're fine to take a pillion.

If it is there, then you'll want to call them. We have no idea how much it'll cost, it'll be entirely dependent on your underwriters and personal situation.

G is right that you probably should tell them that you've passed, but I'd call and ask them if they'd stitch you up with a mid term adjustment "if" you pass your test. If they say yes then I personally wouldn't bother. However, there's no right or wrong answer, it's up to your tolerance for risk.

[1] Whether such a clause actually voids the insurance for purposes of criminal prosecution under the RTA is an interesting but different question to whether it would allow your insurer to avoid fully comp payout or sue you to recover a 3rd party payout to your pillion. Both of them would eventually be decided in a court, and I've yet to see cited case law either way.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
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Hammasterchie...
L Plate Warrior



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PostPosted: 13:36 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your answers guys, especially roger, checked my insurance documents and no mention of pillion cover or not, so rang them this morning and asked about it, the woman over the phone told me it was free to add pillion cover so she added it to my policy and then said youre now allowed to carry a pillion so that just about solves, thanks again your all really helpfull on here Very Happy
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weasley
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which makes you wonder what the point of that was? If "there's no mention of pillion" on your current insurance, since your bike is designed to take a passenger, you can infer that you have cover for carrying a pillion. I don't have to tell the insurers whether or not I will be taking passengers in my car.

Then, if to add pillion cover is free, what is the point? There's clearly no additional perceived risk, and since pillion use was already covered by inference, what has been gained?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammasterchief wrote:
checked my insurance documents and no mention of pillion cover or not, so rang them this morning and asked about it, the woman over the phone told me it was free to add pillion cover so she added it to my policy and then said youre now allowed to carry a pillion


I'm awarding that an "London Olympics Mascots" on the WTF-O-Meter.

https://www.channel4.com/news/media/images/Channel4/news/articles/19_olympics2_k.jpg

OK, your mind is as rest and all that, but really, all that matters is the documents. What are they going to do now, send you out an identical certificate and schedule? Neutral
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike


Last edited by Rogerborg on 17:26 - 08 Feb 2012; edited 1 time in total
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paddlesat16
Crazy Courier



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PostPosted: 16:28 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

This insurance bollocks is utter tosh about carrying pillion passengers. Do they(the ins companies) ask such crap when you insure a car.... No they fuckin don't or ask about the satnav stuck to the windscreen or the fuckin go faster stripe down the side.

It's about time the government got the insurance industry by the scruff of the neck.

Rant over
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 16:34 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pillion thing descended from very reasonable roots.

A lot of bike riders don't carry pillions at all.

The insurance companies saw that they were at reduced financial risk if no pillion was carried.
So they offered a discount to those that had reduced risk.

It's a lot more 'expected' for car drivers to carry passengers; to start with you don't require specific safety equipment that fits your passenger. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if at some point we did see something that - especially for young people, where I bet a pretty high proportion of crashes do happen with passengers.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hammasterchief wrote:
Im not really sure how to find out should i get on the phone and ask if my insurance would be invalid if i carry a pillion, i just want to know if id be breaking the law carrying a pillion, and then if i am how i can change my policy so that i can have a passenger on board :/ do you think ill have to pay allot more if it needs to be changed?


Legally you require 3rd party insurance. Your insurance will cover 3rd parties at minimum.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 17:26 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and just to add to the above - try getting insured on a car at all when young and even when a little older, a car that is considered even a bit 'performance' when compared to a bike.

Ie, I think it was around £700 for my 1996 BMW M3. For my 2006 GSXR 1000 which will get to 100 in around the time the car gets to 60, the insurance was £130, despite the bike arguably being worth more. Similar no claims bonus, etc.

Not sure the bikers have it too badly, actually!
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
The pillion thing descended from very reasonable roots.


Agreed, it's a significant risk factor for insurers (carrying a potential 3rd party claimant around with you), and I appreciate being able to get a discount.

However, where it gets shonky is underwriters flat out refusing to cover you unless you agree not to take a pillion.

As long as we still have a choice and are benefiting, I'm OK with it, but I'm damn sure that Aviva didn't give a blanket discount to all their insurees when they removed the option.


G wrote:
It's a lot more 'expected' for car drivers to carry passengers; to start with you don't require specific safety equipment that fits your passenger. I wouldn't be surprised, however, if at some point we did see something that - especially for young people, where I bet a pretty high proportion of crashes do happen with passengers.


I'm surprised that we haven't seen it already, there's loads of Clios and C2s cruising around with a mid sized menagerie of chavs and cockholsters hanging out the windows, all of them potential claimants on Bazza's mum's insurance.

Heh, something's just occurred to me: if MPV Mum prangs her ride on the school run, can her own kids sue her? She might have to get them lawyers first... Confused
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike


Last edited by Rogerborg on 17:47 - 08 Feb 2012; edited 1 time in total
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 08 Feb 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

G wrote:
Oh and just to add to the above - try getting insured on a car at all when young and even when a little older, a car that is considered even a bit 'performance' when compared to a bike.


Too right on this one!

For me to insure a Hayabusa we're looking at around £5,500. Not too bad actually considering them wanted >£9100 for an R6. That's on my own policy with pillion cover, 1 year NCB, 18 years old. Nobody else is on the policy. Alternatively something like the Thundercat (600cc) would be £710, a Bandit 1200 is also about £710 and the VFR 800 is about £710. Others like the GS500F are about £400.

For me to insure one of my parent's cars (clicky clicky) they wanted >£6100. That car isn't even 900cc and it reaches 80 mph (if you're lucky). Why so insanely high I have no idea, but I have only had my car licence a month. My brother insured his first car (a Ford KA) at £1200 almost a year after passing his test (so he was 18).

On a side rant, one of my female friends have been quoted about £400 for their first years car insurance on a corsa. She's been learning for at least 6 months and hasn't even passed her theory yet. I did it all in about 2-3 months, with a lesson a week, and passed the test easily. The only thing that held me back was waiting for test dates Evil or Very Mad
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