First bike - cg125, kh125 or gt125? or....

[pillion]

Hi,

Got my CBT tomorrow, starting a bit late at 28 but looking to get hold of a bike asap. At the moment I feel like I've done a lot of reading (and no riding) but got no closer to what bike I should go for.

My current options are:

- A 1997 Kawasaki KH125-K9, although aesthetically not particularly attractive to my eyes, looks to be in excellent condition (16,000 miles)

- a 1981 Suzuki GT125, classic look is really appealing, sounds a bit quicker than other 125's but might mean a little more costly fuel wise (20,000 miles)

- a 1981 Honda CG125, again, looks good to me with the round headlight etc, simple classic style, maybe cosmetically not quite as sound as the other two with a bit more rust (nothing too drastic - mainly on the stand) - mileage unknown

All have a certain appeal and part of me thinks that it doesn't really matter as this is my first bike - but then for that reason it kind of does matter if you know what I mean. Anyway, I have no first hand experience of any of them so any knowledge or advice you could send my way would be really appreciated.

I even wondered whether I should go for a 100cc, CB100N and GP100's both look good to me.

Help please!

[Moo.]

Whatevers cheapest, in the best condition and is cheap to insure.

At the end of the day they all do the same job, and they're all pretty decent bikes. All fairly cheap to run and will get your through what needs doing

So then its down to looks and what you like, the difference in fuel shouldnt be too much, nothing drastically noticable.

Personally i like the look of the suzuki gt125

Myself, i had a 1977 honda cg, cant fault em. Basic bike that'll do anything you ask it and pretty reliable.

Think the gt125 is a 2 stroke, so will be quicker off the mark and fairly nippy, make sure you keep the 2 smoke oil topped up
____________________
A2 Passed 18/6/10

[P.]

KH

Find a newer CG...2000 model or something, that ones well old

[Lupine Lacuna]

I would never buy a 125 for a first bike. They have no stability, feel dangerous and are boring and I question how much they teach you due to the fact that you have to barely use the clutch on junction, etc.

[ninja_butler]

I'm biased toward the Suzuki GT because I used to ride a Suzuki GP, but any of those bikes are good candidates depending on their condition.

[Shaft]

Assuming it's in good nick, GT125, no contest.

The KH was out of date in 1981, so the 1997 version is just an underpowered anachronism and the CG is solid, reliable and deadly dull, by comparison.

You'll pay a bit of a penalty in fuel consumption, but give me that screaming twin any day!

(and you can tune the bejeebus out of it, when you get bored)
____________________
Things get better with age; I'm close to being magnificent........
20 RE Interceptor, 83 Z1100A3, 83 GS650 Katana
WooHoo, I'm a Man Point Millionaire! https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=234035

[Alpha-9]

[nowhere.elysium]

[Rogerborg]

Depends what you want it for.

Learning prior to doing DAS?
Long term low cost commuting?
Doing your tests on it?

How are you with a spanner?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[pillion]

Thanks for the response so far. To answer some of the questions: main use will be commuting around London, long spells on A3, the odd weekend road trip. In terms DAS I'd like to do it eventually but probably won't rush, want to get comfortable on a bike first. My current mechanical knowledge is zero but I can learn. Another main thing for me is economy, keeping running costs low as possible, thanks

[nowhere.elysium]

[pillion]

can I presume that no one is recommending a 100cc such as CB100N or GP100?

[Carvel]

[UnspeedySam]

[Kickstart]

Hi
Of those I would be tempted to go for the KH. Only thing is not sure they were imported anything like that late (they were fairly common in the late 1980s) so spares might be an issue. GT125 is likely to be the quickest but also the hardest for spare parts. CG will be simple for parts, although not sure I would want a 30 year old CG.

[Beamexican]

Have to agree on going for the KH out of your options, I had one as my first bike and thrashed it mercilessly as I was 17 and spanners didn't exist!! yet it just kept on going.

Would definitely advise looking after it though.

[pepperami]

I had a 1979 CG 125 of lovelyness that I just sold this weekend.

Dont be put off by an old CG if it`s been looked after.
I looked after mine and it NEVER EVER let me down
If you do decide to get a CG, get a 12v model as the 6v electrics in the old models is not the best .
That said all my electrics worked, just a bit more feeble than a modern bike.
____________________
I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[Blau Zedong]

GT125 is the enthusiast's choice, not the ideal learner choice. Spares difficult and more demanding in terms of spanners than the other options.
____________________
18:54:48 Rob Fzs: jews don't give away stuff for free

18:54:59 Rob Fzs: unless its their clothes/ hair/ golden teeth

[Blau Zedong]

[Teflon-Mike]

[pillion]

wow, thanks for the detailed response guys - plenty of food for thought. The good news is that i got through the CBT unscathed, not earth shattering news I know, but still - I'm ready to buy now. If I can pose one more question relating to these bikes:

When it comes to taking on a bike that has had a substantial rebuild, ie rebore, pistons, sprockets etc - would you see that as a good sign? Think I've narrowed it (for now) to a very well kept looking KH125 and a GP100 that's been basically rebuilt. Still keeping my eyes peeled though.

[Shaft]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Teflon-Mike]

Post Script Ponder:

An MOT to prove a renovation has met the grade is £30.
Take a 'Derelict' bike or one sold 'Spares or Repairs' as the donor. Lets say, optimistically it costs just £50, wheeled out of some-ones shed and into the work-shop, or in diesel to go get it for 'free'.
Now lets tart it up.
Seat Cover £25; Paint. £65 (2 Rattle Cans of 'colour' £20; 2 cans Primer £20; 1 can of petrol Proof Laquer for the tank £10; Pot of Smoothright to black the frame £15); Pair of fork-gaiters to hide rusty pitted stansions, £10; New Battery £20; Tube of Solvol to polish Stuff £6; Deturgent to clean everything & make it shiney 69p

That's £200... and without doing anything majorly mechanical, could be enough to tart an old derelict up, get it running and get it through an MOT.... what would it sell for? £400, £600?

But basically it a derelict thats just been prettied up; could be a complete knacker under the new paint. and sold 'legitimately' as having had a 'full ground up rebuild'... no new parts, just taking bits apart and painting them... still been 'rebuilt' and from the ground up!

Lets do some 'real' mechanics. Lets clean those forks up properly and put new seals in them. Thats another £10 for the seals, and £10 for the oil, IF you can get away with the old stansions. If not, then you are looking at £150 to get them reconditioned, or anything from £25-£90 for a pair of 'better' second hand ones....

Lets 'do' the headstock. To my mind not worth trying to salvage old steering bearings; you can clean up races and fit new balls, for possibly a fiver; or use new races and balls; for probably £15, but modern taper-rollers tend to be around £25 and are a darn site less faffingly fiddly to fit, and work better..... add a bit of grease and thats the job done.

Swing arm bearings; SO often ignored, but makes big difference to the way a bike rides. Generally arouund £15-£20. Often awkward to do on older tiddlers, but not expensive and worth the effort. And probably a lot more effective than replacing tired worn out shock-absorbers, which are frequently changes SIMPLY because the chrome is rusty and they look horrible. Budget shocks for a lightweight, probably £40 or so.

Not touched the brakes or tyres yet, JUST steering and suspension; and already, we have added £50 to the costs, in a 'best case' scenario, and could be running as high as £200...

Brakes; Shoes for a drum brake or pads for a disc, around £10 each. So £20 to JUST replace the old brake material. Drum brake, easy enough to overhaul; all mechanical mechanism, its taking bits apart, cleaning them and greasing them. Front brake may do with a new cable for £10. Hydraulic disc bit more expensive & vexing. If you are LUCKY it wont need more than new pads, and a fluid change, but in all likelihood, caliper will probably need completely reconditioning with a new piston and seal set; typically around £25, and a new hose, maybe £15.

We've just upped the game another £100... and we STILL haven't got to the engine! Or looked at any 'damage' like replacing cracked or missing indicators, bent handlebars or broken brake or clutch levers....

What are we running at so far, on a bike that we have valued at £50, and only given some 'basic' mechanical renovation, and still not got into the engine?

£400 - £600.....

How much REAL propper actual live giving 'restoration' do you think a bike sold at that kind of money has REALLY been given?

DT I am renovating at the moment has a build cost, that has is just nudging the £1000 mark. I paid less than £250 for the bike, pretty much complete and running.

Hate looking at these breakdowns, TOO depressing! BUT... spreadsheet tells me that the 'pretty bits' have cost £223.87p! But that does include a bale of wire wool, which I wont have ALL used, but at about a fiver... is it worth arguing over? Doing it top draw, I have Blasting & powder coating of the frame and swing arm and loads of bits and bobs and brackets in there; and some expensive custom made graphics... there's also a chunk of electrical bits and bobs to do a 12v conversion and lighting upgrade that probably add another £100-£150 of 'unnecessary' expense to the job.

BUT, I have done bog all to the engine; I've not had to buy a new exhaust (£200 for this bike, but anything from £70 up on others). I haven't got new tyres (£90 for 'decent' ones for this bike; though budget rubber could be had for perhaps £60 up on others), or renewed the bearings in the wheels; but on JUST doing 'basic' mechanicals, and replacing a few broken bits, it's cost me around £500 to make it 'good' over the buy price of the bike.

So the conclusion IS... basically, if a bike HAS been properly 'restored' and had a thorough 'nut & bolt' rebuild... being generous, and allowing corners to be cut, and not EVERYTHING to be reconditioned with new bits, you would be LUCKY to get away spending less than £500 on ANYTHING... and that would NOT provide much scope for engine work, where just a top end rebuild on an air cooled two stroke is likely to be around £60 for a rebore and piston. Do a 'full' rebuild with new bearings and seals and a rebuilt crank, you are looking at probably at least £150.

So IF a bike is being sold for £500-£600 it has either NOT been 'fully restored' or the seller is offering the bike for a price less than it will have cost him to create, and if it has been WELL done probably an AWFUL lot less than its cost him.

So, Do ya feel lucky?
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[nowhere.elysium]

While I congratulate you on your discovery of the spellchecker, I still believe you have yet to master the art of précis, along with the use of punctuation.

Terse posts are easy-to-read posts.
____________________
'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project