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| superman1 |
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superman1
Derestricted Danger
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
tl;dr
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 Posted: 11:05 - 25 Feb 2012  Post subject: Re: What first bike to get |
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| superman1 wrote: | What first bike to get |
None of the above.
DAS Newbie to 600 Supersport... oh dear... you didn't read thw warning on the lable did you? Or you DID and thought "Oh now, that's not me... I will be the 'sensible' one"
Buying one of them... no you aren't.
they are all fantasticly capable bikes; but not particularly newbie freindly. They are just 'too' capable, and do one thing, 'easy fast'.
Doing it easy, they will not help you progress as a rider; and all they will do is go fast, and let you believe you are a riding ace, and convince you of your belief you ARE the sensible one, and are a riding god, becouse (so far) you have defied the doubters that said such a bike would kill you.
The defacto first big bikes are the twins; for a sporty one; SV650.
Its 75bhp motor is still fast enough to be a handful; but soft power delivery, softer handling and more allround capability; bike has some fuzzy edges, that will give you some rider feed-back, and let you get some experience of what a bike is like when it ISN'T behaving impecably, and tolerate being in that fuzzy margin of capability, without it being so lethal.
For the sunny Sunday blasts; could be a life time before the thrills such a bike offers aren't enough....
BUT, if after a bit on that bike, the lure of a 'four' is still too much, and your ego demands it; then you WILL be better prepared to ride it; you will also be able to appreciate it a lot more having something 'less' capable to judge it by.
Whether you heed any of this; is very much up to you; and I hand over to the inevitable string of; "Its all in the attitude2 or "Throttle Goes Both Ways" replies we have every time this question comes up.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| superman1 |
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superman1
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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| Posted: 11:25 - 25 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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| superman1 wrote: | Thanks for the Info.
I have taken note and have been looking at LESS capable bikes.
What are your thoughts on the Kawasaki ZXR400. With it being a smaller engine and older bike i could pick on up for £1500 and insurance would be cheaper. Going by how i started on cars i thought its best i stick with something old so that it can take a bit of a battering (being dropped or harsh gear changes etc)
Would this be suitable for a newbie. |
I see the logic; twenty years old, and 200cc smaller, its 'about' as powerful as an SV650.... Short answer though NO... it still has too many cylinders, and is a pure sports bike, without the fuzzy edges, that will give you a soft margin to play in.
What's wrong with an SV650, or the Hyosung equivilent? Maybe a TDM850, or a Ducati Monster?
Something with two cylinders will give you a lot more 'sensation', as will something with less plastic around it. Also less to break if you drop it.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| JoeDougieDoug... |
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JoeDougieDoug...
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| Sako |
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Sako
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| harscot |
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harscot
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| Posted: 16:06 - 25 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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Just a thought, some would say a bandit, a Diversion or a Honda cbr 600 is a good all round starter to bigger bikes and there fairly bullet proof, my first big bike was and is a Deauville 650 ( shafty, and I like small tourers )  
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First bike R reg Suzuki 125 GT twin in 1978:
2nd bike X reg Honda 650 Deauville in 2011:
Wish bike a Triumph Thunderbird: Dream bike Triumph Rocket........ |
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| superman1 |
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superman1
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| alone |
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alone
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| Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike
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Posted: 02:20 - 26 Feb 2012  Post subject: |
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| alone wrote: | Could you clarify what the number of cylinders has to do with it? Even capacity means nothing... I'd say an R6 is more dangerous to a new rider than a GL1800 |
I would tend to agree with you. There are quite a few 'big' bikes I wouldn't have too many qualms sticking a DAS fresh Newbie onto... the Divvy 9, being a favorite, if they really have to have something 'BIG'.. because its nice and soft and soggy round the edges, and will command a certain 'respect' from them as they start winding on the grunt.
Cylinders? To do with the 'charecter' of the engine, and the power delivery. If you have a 'four'; you have two pots up, two pots down one on each phase of the four-stroke combustion cycle at any one time. ONE of them is making power keeping the crank spining. Power delivery ten tends to be quite smooth, and refined.
If you have a twin; there's various arrangements; but lets stick to a parallel twin like an old Super-Dream or an old Brit-Bike, for a moment.
Two ways to arrange the crank; one piston up; one down the '180' crank, or both up, the 360. If you have a 360 crank, then you have power pulse from one, return, power pulse from the other, return... smooth even firing order, but a bit more 'jerky' becouse there's nothing powering the return strokes. and both slugs riding and falling together there's no counter balencing, so the thing will tend to 'shake' quite a bit at higher revs. 180 crank, offers some counter balencing, but you now have power pulse, power pulse, return return, so its not as smooth, but might not vibrate so badly at higher revs.
Now, take the parallel twin and change the firing interval, by splaying the pots into a V configuration... you now have a 45, 60 or 90 degree gap, and it gets even lumpier in terms of the power pulses, and probably has even less counter balencing.
Its an 'unrefined' configuration of engine. AND a four's greatest asset is that by making the cylinders smaller and having more of them, to get they same capacity; within the 'normal' limits of conventional bore stroke ratio's you get a short stroke engine, that will more happily make power from higher rpm, and better able to make those higher rpm from having a bigger piston area with more, lighter valves and valve area to keep the thing fed with charge.
So, a four, will tend to make more power higher up the rev range; and do it very smoothly.
With the engine frequently displaying a higher rev range power 'hump', for a new rider, the contrast between the low rev range power and response and high rev range power and response can incourage them to use higher revs and be more inclined to 'thrash' the engine; and being very smooth, and not shaking, it wont give the audible or physical 'queues' that you are pulling those revs or using so much power. And you can 'easily' over accelerate to a speed you probably wouldn't be inclined to, if you were on a twin.
Twin; without the valve area to capacity of a four, and the harsher, lumpier power delivery; it will tend not to display such a dramatic high rev power hump; it will deliver more apparent 'drive' from low revs, and as the revs increase, the lumpy power deliver and lack of inherent balence will start giving aural and physical clues that you ARE pushing it up the revs... where, with the lesser valve area and without the high rev power hump, it will start to feel 'less eager' to rev on, and start becoming more 'asthmatic' as the engine tries to take big gulps of air, rather than continually sucking!
SO: a twin, is more likely to give a newbie a lot more 'sensation' of riding, and a that can be translated as 'feed-back' that can help them interpret what the bike is doing beneath them.
Stick a Newbie onto a faired four; something 'fairly' soft... lets say a CBR600F. No where near as hard edged as say a ZX6R... but with the fairing relieving wind-blast and that smooth reletively rev hungry engine delivering thrust on demand.... you can VERY easily wind it on coming onto a by-pass or motorway slip, and be pulling 120+ and without looking at the guages, not realise you are doing more than 70-80ish.
And in fact; something a little 'softer' like a CBR6, with more 'forgiving' suspension and geometry than a ZX6R, can actually give LESS 'sensation' to a newbie rider... the 'nervous' geometry and 'harsh' suspension of a full-on sports six, coming into its 'sweet-spot' at 90+ velocities, the suspension starting to settle down a bit, and the steering suddenly starting to 'work'!
GL1800? Well? Six cylinders, its a fucking CAR engine! Might have lots of pots, and a very smooth power delivery... but the thing doesn't really 'rev' does it! That and big barn door fairing, though will diminish rider 'sensation' & feedback.... and I wouldn't suggest one as a great newbie starting point either.... but heavier than my Honda Civic, probably WIDER too... I doubt one would get themselves in TOO much trouble on one... though as an aid to progressing as a new rider, and learning to appreciate what more 'specialised' or refined machines are doing for them... probably isn't any better than a ZX6R!
End of the day; there's no right or wrong answer; and its not JUST the engine or the number of pots. Fairing, suspension, it's the character of the ENTIRE bike, that needs considering.
Bandit? Fazer? Divvy? Hornet? Less highly tuned Four's without fairing, or twin with? where's the trade off? Whats the best compromise?
End of the day HAS to be compromise; and only person that can really decide on whats the 'best' one to make for them is them.
BUT; for a newbie; looking at something with no more than two cylinders; is a pretty good place to start, and where you are more likely to find something with the kind of 'character' that is likely to be more helpful to getting in good early miles experience.
____________________
My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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| WannaBeDude |
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WannaBeDude
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| Posted: 02:45 - 26 Feb 2012 Post subject: |
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What happened to the short version at the top !!
OP - whilst you will be a little disapointed not getting what you really want, you will learn a lot, drop it and gain one years NCB.
As a new rider for the first year, any bigger bike will seem fast, and the number of close calls your likely to have will stand you in good sted.
And by the end of that year, your look back and think, yeah, i made the wise choice.
Have you tried insurance quotes !!!
SV faser or honret imo ???
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| allotriophagy |
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allotriophagy
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| DaveB |
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DaveB
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Posted: 16:59 - 26 Feb 2012  Post subject: |
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I passed MOD2 in October and was also looking at a GSXR / Daytona but even in my 40's the insurance was a bit toppy  So I went for a Street Triple instead (half as much to insure). I did really want a Supersports bike, but after doing my MOD(s) on a Yamaha XJ6 I really enjoyed the upright riding position which made me start looking at alternatives. The Triple has plenty of power and still (IMHO) looks the tits 
Get MOD2 sorted then test ride a few...I'm pretty sure I'll get a SS at some point but more than happy at the mo.
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Mod 2 passed 26/10/2011
Current ride: 2014 Triumph Street Triple R. Previous, 2007 Triumph Daytona 675, 2007 Triumph Street Triple, 2011 Derbi GPR125r. |
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| superman1 |
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superman1
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 14 years, 119 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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