time on a tiddler is rarely wasted

[WindyMiller]

Greetings BCFers,

I've been hanging around on here for a while absorbing information and taking in the atmosphere. I have a couple of questions in the "125 vs DAS" vein, which I know has been covered a lot elsewhere. I admit I haven't read ALL of Teflon-Mike's posts on the subject (I DID read a WHOLE one once and found it very INFORMATIVE).

To introduce myself a bit, I'm 36 and recently my commute has gone from a 40 mile drive (each way) to a 10 mile trip to the nearest railway station and half an hour sitting on a train. The train bit is fine, but one car shared between myself and the OH makes getting to/from the station inconvenient and relatively expensive.

It was her idea I get a bike to get to the station, to save on petrol / parking costs and enjoy the journey more than I've been enjoying driving recently. Always loved driving but I've done it too much and I'm thoroughly bored. I'd never even thought of riding bikes before, but I enjoyed the CBT and want more, so we're sorting out cash for a bike, kit, etc.

Most advice on here seems to be get a 125, get lots of practice, do tests. OK - I can get lots of practice in on the daily commute. However, the 10 miles to the station is mostly NSL B-roads and includes a 1 in 6 hill. I'd like to be able to concentrate on avoiding potholes and drain covers, rather than arseholes tailgating and overtaking dangerously because I'm only doing 50. I'd also like to be able to get up that hill at more than 10 mph.

I'm thinking I'd be better off with something with 14hp and capable of 70, rather than 10 hp and a top speed of 55. I'd prefer a 4-stroke for fuel economy and reliability and I'm not keen on the shiny plastic pretend sportsbike look, so that leaves the 125 varadero or maybe a derbi mulhacen / terra and spending £1600 to £2000 on the bike, instead of £1000 to £1200 for a half decent YBR/CG. Maybe I'll get it all back when I sell the bike on, but I still have to find it up front.

Could I get away with a YBR/CG on those roads every day, or would it be unbearable? Would a varadero really be any better? Are there any other 125cc bikes I should consider? Or would DAS training + tests be that bad an option?

TL/DR: which 125 or DAS

Cheers
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[Teflon-Mike]

OK, well, the full licence ought to be your objective.

tool for the job, here would be the regulation learner-commuter. Yamaha YBR125.

Difference between its 10/11bhp and the 13/14 of a Veradaro, or err.... well, cant think of much apart from the plastic-fantastic....

Its MINUSCULE, believe me. YBR is lighter, and makes more of it's limited power than an overdressed XLV. Its 5-10mph on the top speed, and if a hill will slow a YBR it will similarly slow a Veradaro. Its not a difference worth the hassle.

YBR, properly looked after is a genuine 65mph machines, it ought to cope 'adequetly' with suggested use.

Which primerly should be this 'get trained' get practice get a licence.

Remember every hour of training in your first two months of riding, is worth a DAY of training if you leave it a year...

You are fresh; its all new; you take it in; and you can start practicing what you are tought straight away.

Waiting before you start trraining; you will learn by your own mistakes, and not necesserily well, and will pick up habbits that will need breaking.

So get on the program. JUST do the YBR 'like' thing; get some lessons booked, suck it and see how it goes.

Month or two down the line, you can decide how well its working for you; and work out your best rout to a full licence.

Testing on a 125 this year will get you 33bhp licence, which is enough for a restricted 500 commuter twin, good for over 100mph, with beefy mid-range.

And you have option to test DAs if you dont want that limitation, and the full 45ish 110-120ish a commuter twin may offer straight away.

I wouldn't FRET the 125 choice so much here and now. Its your first bike, hopefully NOT your last. And if it helps you get your foundation skills, and a licence; so much the better. After that? Well, anything is possible.

MOST important thing for you to consider; and probably more important than bike model, is SECURITY & KIT.

Bikes get nicked. Bikes left in the same 'quiete' parking space with no-one around and people coming and going are EASILY nicked.

Railway car-parks are PRIME places for thieves to go looking for bikes to steal.

Disk-Lock, alarm AND at the station, not just at home, a sturdy chain & padlock so you can tie the bugger down to something immovable!

And bikes dont have boots.

What you going to do with your crash-helmet? Water-Proofs? Boots?

Carry them on the train with you? Leave them in a locker at the station?

Convenient solution is a rack and top box. Get off bike, take lock & chain out the suitcase, secure the bike up; put hat & gear in the case.

BUT they are as vulnerable to opportunists, and coming back to find some yob has burned through your PVC top box with a fag lighter and nicked your hat, is probably more gut wrenching than the bike not being there.

Snowie has a 'Cheap' top box (£50) on her Super-Dream; its locks are NOT wonderful; and it wouldn't take 14 year old more than ten minutes to break in, if they were deturmined. Good enough for popping to the shops, or leaving it for a shift in a works car-park; but I'd not be comfy if she was leaving it parked up at a college or railway station for ten hours a day.

I have a pair of old 'high-end' hard boxes for my 750/1000. Nonfango, a make that's not around any more; bought out I think by Givi. But twenty years ago £120 a case. Like the Givis these are built to a much higher standard. Thicker, more expensive plastic, better, sturdier locks. And for a bike sat at a rail-way station that bit 'more' confidence; but even so; I have a push-bike cable lock, to augment the standard locks on Snowie's bike, going through the rack and box handle, to make it harder to get off the bike, or open up on the bike.

Whether a cheap £50 box, or expensive £150 one, I'd still be inclined to add that extra security to the thing.

A water-proof cover, can be a securtity aid, too. And better ones, have loops so you can thread the security chain through the cover, when you lock the bike down, so the cover cant be nicked either.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Rogerborg]

1:6 is going to be a ball ache on any 125 (as you bounce up and down to try to get it to move).

If you're into Verydearo money, you might want to look at a newish CBF125, or (towards the top end of the power range) a Hyosung GT125, or (depending on your size) a GT125R or CBR125. If you don't like the plastics, take them off then put them back on when you sell it. I was left standing by a CBR125 going up a steep hill on my CG-copy-engined bike, they're not exactly slouches.

You're going to have to find out for yourself though, there's no firm right or wrong answer.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[WindyMiller]

Thanks for those replies. I have considered a top box for chain carrying / helmet storage, but haven't looked at it in any detail yet.

[Rogerborg]

[Teflon-Mike]

Honda CBF125:
Power: 11hp
Weight 128kg
Top speed 65mph
Honda XL125 Varadero:
Power 15bhp
Weight 149kg
Top speed 72mph
Yamaha YBR125
Power 10bhp
Weight 113kg
Top speed 70mph
(Taken from MCN Quted Specs)

Lexmoto Vixen 125
Max Speed: 90kph (55mph)
(Taken from E-bikes sales literature, that provided no more meaningful details!)

We may only speculate on the power & weight, but as a rough reckoner the Derbi Senda 50cc moped, in 'full-power' motorcycle guise, is quoted as having 7.5bhp, and a top speed of 65mph.

The Chinese 'CG' copy bikes, are notoriousely down on peak power against the original, which had a quoted 9bhp/65mph. And they are often heavier, more so in the 'semi-cruiser' giuses like the Vixen.

So; the YBR has least 'quoted' power, yet makes the most of it. CBF has an extra pony, but doesn't make as much of it; and the XLV, has an extra 50% but only gains 2mph for it!

Basically, as long as you avoid the Chinky-Bikes, all the reputable Jap brands are withing a much of a much of being not a lot different in 'real' terms, and are all 60+mph bikes that can keep up with traffic on NSL roads, and are practically as 'fast' as a moderately loaded ballast truck, up hills!

The Chinky bikes ARE de-restricted moped 'slow' by virtue of being 125's; but even so; difference is still not HUGE.

We're not talking about the huge gulf you could find with a 250, where something like the Suzuki EN250, had something like 17bhp, and topped out at about 75mph, that sat alog side the Suzuki RGV in the catalogue, that had 70bph and could nudge 140mph!

As said, pro's and cons of the different offerings are withing 'similar' limits. Chinky bikes main 'pro' is that they are £999 list price against £2/3ooo! Between the rest, speeds & powers are all in the same NSL ball-park, and not so great in the real world as to be a major deciding factor in the buying decision.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[_Iain_]

Double post. I hate phone keyboards...
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[_Iain_]

Why not do the cbt and then after riding a commuter 125 decide if it'd be suitable or not?

I test rode a derbi senda supermoto before the ybr. They're about 14hp...yeah it felt a little sharper to pull away but in all honesty you wont notice the difference!
____________________
Please be aware that the above post may be full of complete nonsense.
Riding: '07 KTM Duke II, Baotian BT49QT-20 Driving: '88 Volvo 340

[WindyMiller]

You make a good case Tef. I'd been calculating power to weight ratios (including rider) to try and compare the bikes, but I've just overthought it.

I only got the cg125 on my cbt up to 40, but I'm fairly sure I changed up too early - no rev counter and being used to a diesel car at the time.

Just need to get the fuck on with it then. Cheers for the advice, it's really appreciated.
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[J.M.]

[Teflon-Mike]

[Rogerborg]

[sheriffjonny]

2 cents worth from me on the cbf125. I've got this bike, and am thoroughly enjoying riding it. Had 70 out of it the other day (tucked in, going down a big dual carriagway hill).

I took it out through some lanes the other day, and found the pickup easily good enough to get me away from cars out of bends. It also looks a lot bigger than a 125, I haven't really been missed yet by cagers pulling out of side roads. I guess the most distance i've done at 1 time is around 30 miles, and I found my fat ass to be perfectly comfortable the whole time.

But like the others have said, there's not much difference between these machines. And if your goal is to go up to a full power bike, why stress about buying a bike that you are only likely to be riding regularly for 6 months to a year. I think the deciding factor should be price and condition when choosing a bike in this range
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Current bike........'09 Honda CBF 125, seeking new big bike............New bike found '01 Honda VFR 800

[WindyMiller]

So today I picked up my YBR

I can now confirm two things.

1) a YBR125 will do 60+ mph

2) I need a lot more practice at this

Cheers for all the advice guys.

love it.
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YBR125 SV650S Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[nick_houghton]

congrats! Hope it's good. Pics?
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Cheers
Nick Houghton