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ProXimaCore
Dougal



Joined: 01 May 2003
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Welding Reply with quote

Right, seems I'm just making my bike worse than it is lately with all my tampering. Those diagrams are real handy! Smile

The little bit in the diagram I have pointed to is used to attach the rear hugger with a bolt. The bolt is stuck and with all my best efforts to get it out, I accidentally snapped the bit attached to the swingarm off. Confused It looks like it had originally just been welded on. Is it possible to weld it back on? I don't know the first thing about welding, but I have been told it's quite difficult. Is there anything I should take into consideration before getting someone to weld parts back on to my swingarm? Before I go off and do something silly.
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NickD
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Welding itself isn't particularly difficult, but varies depending on what you're welding. Take it down to you nearest fab shop, engineering business, back street garage or similar, and it shouldn't be a problem, and it'll only cost you a few quid. Can't think of any warnings or potential problems as long as the welder's half decent.
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swampy
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PostPosted: 13:40 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I shouldn't think that welding it back on, or fabricating another and welding that should be a problem, has the piece that you broke off left a hole in the swingarm, or has it sheared above where it meets the swingarm ? Should be a five minute job for someone who knows how to weld...
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ProXimaCore
Dougal



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PostPosted: 13:53 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

swampy wrote:
I shouldn't think that welding it back on, or fabricating another and welding that should be a problem, has the piece that you broke off left a hole in the swingarm, or has it sheared above where it meets the swingarm ? Should be a five minute job for someone who knows how to weld...

Ah good, good. I didn't think it'd be much of a problem. No harm in a few other opinions though. Thumbs Up

It has snapped at the top of where the original weld is, so there is no hole left behind. It should just be a matter of welding it back on in 5 mins then! I was less than impressed when it happend as you can imagine. Razz

Cheers again. I'll try not to break any more bits on my bike.
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Rory
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PostPosted: 14:37 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was under the impression welding aluminium was difficult?
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ProXimaCore
Dougal



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PostPosted: 14:42 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rory wrote:
I was under the impression welding aluminium was difficult?

That's the sort of thing I was meaning. Are particular materials harder than others to weld? You're not handy with a welding kit by chance are you Rory? Wink
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mr jamez
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes aluminium is harder to weld, but an engineering shop etc will not have any trouble as they have the correct gear and know how Smile
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MarJay
But it's British!



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PostPosted: 15:18 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikes have only just started to have Ally swingarms in the last few years. I would be very surprised if that swingarm wasn't steel! Smile
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ZRX61
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PostPosted: 15:47 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rory wrote:
I was under the impression welding aluminium was difficult?

If ya know what yer doing it's no harder welding steel, welding magnesium is the tricky one....
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stryker
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shocked How do you weld magnesium without it going up in your face?
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swampy
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

stryker wrote:
Shocked How do you weld magnesium without it going up in your face?



Veeerrryyy carefully Laughing
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Rory
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PostPosted: 17:16 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
Bikes have only just started to have Ally swingarms in the last few years. I would be very surprised if that swingarm wasn't steel! Smile


Perhaps in most cases, however bikes like mine have an aluminium triangulated swingarm. Bling-tastic Smile No idea about the Gixxer though.
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ProXimaCore
Dougal



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PostPosted: 17:35 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rory wrote:
Perhaps in most cases, however bikes like mine have an aluminium triangulated swingarm. Bling-tastic Smile No idea about the Gixxer though.

Any way I can tell from just looking at it?
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Rory
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dunno, try a web search or ask on 400GB.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

ProXimaCore wrote:
Any way I can tell from just looking at it?


If it is steel, it will stick to a magnet, if it is alloy, it will not.

If it is alloy, you will need to find somebody who can do TIG welding. Ask around for someone who is good at it because you would not be happy if they blow a hole through your swingarm (welding alloy is trickier due to the lower melting point and tendancy to catch fire...overegg the power and you blast holes in the alloy rather than melt it to the wire), expect the weld to look quite bulky, this is a good thing as it imparts strength.

Any bugger should be able to weld a lug onto a steel swingarm. I could do it with my £75 gassless MIG set and I am crap at welding Wink
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Rory
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PostPosted: 17:53 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkywheely wrote:
If it is steel, it will stick to a magnet, if it is alloy, it will not.


I should so have known the answer to that Doh!
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just looking at your picture, it doesn't look like that lug is carrying a lot of load...you might find you can glue it back on using a product called JB Weld which is an epoxy based plastic metal. Use plenty, you can even grind, drill and tap it afterwards. It will either work brilliantly or snap-off immediatley.

Make sure the surfaces are perfectly clean and grease freeand build up the epoxy all the way around the crack, use it thickly accross any stress points.
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ProXimaCore
Dougal



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PostPosted: 21:11 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've found out that it's infact alloy and not steel.

Yeah I was thinking even some strong glue stuff would probably work. It doesn't need to take a heavy load at all. It's just to hold the hugger in place. So there's no real weight on it or anything.
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dibbster
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 22:47 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

If swingarm was steel it would possibly show signs of rust depending on age.

On a slightly more general note, welding. It is something I have never done but feel I should have at some stage. Never did it at school (did brazing once) but I can think of numerous occasions it would have been useful.

(sorry for wandering off topic)
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 23:47 - 28 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Alloy welding is quite a skilled job, and the problem they will have is that they will want to know the grade of alloy that they are dealing with.

Bike swinging arms on sports bikes have been alloy for around 20 years now.

All the best

Keith
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ZRX61
Victor Meldrew



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PostPosted: 03:15 - 29 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

stryker wrote:
Shocked How do you weld magnesium without it going up in your face?


I don't know & I don't want to know, I did quite a feat of OA welding today tho, had to weld up a bunch of holes in some 20 gauge sheet steel ('68 VW bug hood, er, trunk, er.. boot lid thing at the front) & somehow managed to do it without distorting the metal at all. I even got a metal finish so it doesn't require any mud before priming. Impressed myself no end with that Smile
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:53 - 29 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

stryker wrote:
Shocked How do you weld magnesium without it going up in your face?


As far as I know, it has to do with the fact that a TIG welding set (Tungsten Inert Gas) floods the area of the weld with a cocktail of inert gasses such as Argon thereby ensuring an atmosphere in which magnesium cannot burn....and as has been said, VERY carefully. Big Pete will be able to tell you exactly.
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Big Pete
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PostPosted: 14:41 - 29 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Magnesium is usually welded in a glove box filled with argon mix, it can also be laser welded in a vacuum.
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Rory
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PostPosted: 15:09 - 29 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isn't magnesium usually used in an alloy with other metals that retard its tendancy to burn instead of melt?
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Big Pete
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 29 Sep 2004    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rory wrote:
Isn't magnesium usually used in an alloy with other metals that retard its tendancy to burn instead of melt?


its usually alloyed with other metals to improve its mechanical properties (strength, hardness fatigue strength etc), any fire retardant properties are accidental. Mag wheels for instance burn well as do things like cam covers on modern bikes.
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