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Small thing on the news thats f**ked me off.

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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Small thing on the news thats f**ked me off. Reply with quote
Just saw on ITV east anglia news about motorbike deaths. Only saw the last few minutes, but a few sentences riled me up.

"Already this year 2 motorcyclists have died".

"Happens on larger machines".

Hang about, how many car deaths have there been this year in Norfolk? I remember there was one that happened on a greasy road I USED at the time, same day.

Pissed off at the usual blame game bikes are dangerous bullshit. No such thing for cars, oh no, all car drivers are saints, all bike users are sinners.

Not a dig at car users in general, just the media perception.
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J.M.
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
My Mum always made a point of telling me that she had friends who had been killed in a bike accident, and biking was dangerous.

One day I got fed up and said back "so you've never had a friend killed in a car accident?" The reply, "well, yes, but it wasn't her fault.."
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GrumpyGuts
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PostPosted: 13:24 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Motorcycling is only as dangerous as the person riding the bike.

Then again, the roads in this country could be better maintained and cunt wank drivers looking Evil or Very Mad
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bunglehaze
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PostPosted: 13:29 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
GrumpyGuts wrote:
Motorcycling is only as dangerous as the person riding the bike.

Then again, the roads in this country could be better maintained and cunt wank drivers looking Evil or Very Mad


Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.
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GrumpyGuts
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PostPosted: 13:31 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
That's what I mean about cunt wank drivers. I've shat myself numerous times when drivers pull out in front of me or cross my lane without looking/indicating. I feel like undertaking them, stopping and having a right go. But oh wait, I ride a Lifan ......
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Going
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Joined: 26 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
GrumpyGuts wrote:
That's what I mean about cunt wank drivers. I've shat myself numerous times when drivers pull out in front of me or cross my lane without looking/indicating. I feel like undertaking them, stopping and having a right go. But oh wait, I ride a Lifan ......


Maybe they thought you couldn't take it any more and decided out of the kindness of their heart to help you out Laughing
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GrumpyGuts
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 25 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
That would be VERY polite of them. However they may just kill me in the process.
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 06:32 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bunglehaze wrote:
GrumpyGuts wrote:
Motorcycling is only as dangerous as the person riding the bike.


Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.


It's extremely rare though compared to the majority, like getting shunted from behind and other things you can't do much about. I'd imagine 90% or more of biker deaths could be prevented if the rider was paying attention or had placed themselves in a better position.
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Marmalade
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PostPosted: 06:41 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
tbourner wrote:
Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.


It's extremely rare though compared to the majority, like getting shunted from behind and other things you can't do much about. I'd imagine 90% or more of biker deaths could be prevented if the rider was paying attention or had placed themselves in a better position.[/quote]

As in, biker would have lived if they'd paid more attention to the car pulling out without looking and put them self in a position of high visibility so they can be seen, possibly, maybe, if chappy in car can be bothered to look just a tiny bit?

I do agree that is what must be done but why should it be a bikers fault if they crash due to some twat in a car that can't be bothered to look?
We should be able to ride down the road and not have to grab for the brakes every time Mr Wanky Mcnumpty comes screeching up to the junction ahead or pulls out into you without looking or indicating.


I do agree that the filling out of stories with shit that makes bikers sound bad should stop, but how?

How many of us would fire off an email of complaint about the content of a report?
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 06:52 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marmalade wrote:
tbourner wrote:
It's extremely rare though compared to the majority, like getting shunted from behind and other things you can't do much about. I'd imagine 90% or more of biker deaths could be prevented if the rider was paying attention or had placed themselves in a better position.


As in, biker would have lived if they'd paid more attention to the car pulling out without looking and put them self in a position of high visibility so they can be seen, possibly, maybe, if chappy in car can be bothered to look just a tiny bit?


The problem is everyone links the 'blame' with the law. We all know car drivers don't look (sweeping generalisation there), so if we're talking road laws they're usually at fault. I'm not talking road laws though I'm talking real life, in which a biker should KNOW that the driver waiting at a sideroad is 50/50 that he might just pull out, quickly, without looking. Then there's a 50/50 he might see you late and slam on in the middle of the road, so your 'get-out' options mid-incident are also a lottery.
The point is; with this knowledge, the biker COULD slow down, position better, basically assume the worst in all cases. I'm sure many bikers do this, but many have the mentality of following the rules and throwing a hissy when it goes wrong - yeah the car driver was in the wrong but so were you for not assuming that beforehand.
Having said all that, we shouldn't have to ride at 20mph everywhere covering the brake, so you chose your own compromise.
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G
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PostPosted: 07:19 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
bunglehaze wrote:

Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.

I'd suggest that if the 'other people' cause you to die, you would be far from the most road-aware rider. That is the person who would not be in that position.

I'd suggest it'd maybe be someone that believed they were, but in reality was far from it.
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TUG
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PostPosted: 07:53 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not sure if everyone has seen but I recently smashed my bike up but it was all down to me, there is no denying that. So having done this alot of conversations, decisions and discussions even an arguement or two has all been about car VS bike.

My mum isn't really too fussed on the issue, she said "at the end of the day you could die in a car or be serverely injuried like we saw on the ward last time you crashed."

But on the other side of the coin we have my gf who saw me crash and has been very worried about my riding lately as i will admit has become some what lacking in safety.
"How many times will you be lucky enough to walk away, your so much safer in a car, no one dies in cars blah blah blah".


She soon hushed up when i told her that infact my aunty died in my favorite car a number of years ago.

Fact of the matter is this, the general public believe anything other than popular opinion is wrong, scary and down right dangerous.

But i must stress this, you are more likely to survive a pretty extreme RTA in a car than a bike, but just that single fact does not prove a point that a bike is infact dangerous at all.
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Kwakki Si
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PostPosted: 08:28 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
We as bikers see so much bad driving on the road these days its unreal! How many cagers are on phones?? Dont indicate, in the wrong lanes at roundabouts, nearly got knocked off the other day as i went in the right lane to go right at a roundabout 3rd exit, do a life saver just before turning off and theres some fucker who stayed in the left lane but wanted to go right, lucky i did my lifesaver or id be broken and my bike would be in the bin. i see loads everytime im out etc People really should have to retake a driving/bike test every 2-3 years for one it would create alot of jobs and it would sharpen up peoples skills and awareness as they seem to be lacking.
Yes biking is risky but id rather it be risky if i take a chance but not that some numpty just doesnt look.
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bunglehaze
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PostPosted: 08:54 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
bunglehaze wrote:

Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.

I'd suggest that if the 'other people' cause you to die, you would be far from the most road-aware rider. That is the person who would not be in that position.

I'd suggest it'd maybe be someone that believed they were, but in reality was far from it.


Not really G, as I put "in the worst circumstances" meaning that occasionally shit might happen, in this case even the safest, most road aware person could be at risk.

No-one is able to watch the road, surroundings, other riders etc 100% of the time, sometimes accidents just happen.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 09:08 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:

I'd suggest that if the 'other people' cause you to die, you would be far from the most road-aware rider. That is the person who would not be in that position.

I'd suggest it'd maybe be someone that believed they were, but in reality was far from it.


If you can avoid a car on your side of the road around a tight corner at speed, then honestly that's incredible. Most people can't. Razz
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keggyhander
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PostPosted: 09:22 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
G wrote:
bunglehaze wrote:

Not quite true, you could be the safest, most road aware rider in the saddle but third party idiots can still cause you to expire in the worst circumstances.


I'd suggest that if the 'other people' cause you to die, you would be far from the most road-aware rider. That is the person who would not be in that position.

I'd suggest it'd maybe be someone that believed they were, but in reality was far from it.


Agree completely.

I get into arguments about it in the real world. Bikers giving it this and that about "cagers". They don't like it when I suggest not riding like a copper on a doughnut errand.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:40 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:
If you can avoid a car on your side of the road around a tight corner at speed, then honestly that's incredible. Most people can't. Razz


I had this debate after my IAM assessed ride. Roadcraft intones "Always be able to stop on your own side of the road in the distance that you can see to be clear."

But that means approaching blind bends and hill crests at a crawl, something which neither I nor the IAM observers did (although I slowed more than they did).

"Well... you have to use your judgement."

Of course you do, there's no safe speed, not even zero, but don't preach "always" unless you mean it and abide by it. There are no absolutes in biking except that there are no absolutes.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

I had this debate after my IAM assessed ride. Roadcraft intones "Always be able to stop on your own side of the road in the distance that you can see to be clear."


Even that wouldn't work, as the area that was clear can quickly become obstructed by "something". I had a situation last week, where 3 of us on bikes were all riding down a wide A road. The road was clear on our side, but a line of approx 5 cars was on the opposite lane coming towards us. As we approached a pub on our left, a car from the opposite lane turned right, without indication into the pub. The area that 10secs ago was clear, and safe to do 70 now becomes an area thats very not clear, where it is only safe to do 30. Luckily we each managed to shake off enough speed and get round the back of the car, but it shows that even though there was a 1/4mile clear straight in front of us, it isn't safe to do the speed at which you can stop in that distance.
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Marcg868
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Bikes are only dangerous if you don't give them the respect they deserve. Your just as likely to die on a 125cc as you are on a 1000 cc sports bike.

Some circumstances are preventable from a riders perspective, but sometimes car driver really do not look. Also, the speeding up to a junction thing, why do that?

Cars are just as Dangerous, one road i commute on the A666 young male and his 4 occupants died on a 30 mph stretch, hitting a wall on a slight curve in the road, was most likely going far too fast for the conditions as its not a dangerous section this was october 2011.

Two weeks ago, 24 year old Male driving a BMW 330, quite a powerful and fast car. Lost control and went straight through a dry stone wall into a field 20ft away from the road. Was dead on arrival of the emergency services.

I think its the attitudes that cost people their life, not what vehicle they choose to drive.
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Cheeseybeaner
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PostPosted: 18:18 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Plenty of people die in cars, especially in the younger age range.
My brothers friend from school was killed a few years ago following a head-on collision with an oncoming car.
...A friend of mine at school also had his brother die after crashing with mates in following a night out.
Admittedly alcohol was probably involved but the fact was they were killed in a car...
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:

If you can avoid a car on your side of the road around a tight corner at speed, then honestly that's incredible. Most people can't. Razz


That would happen if you were driving a car as well though.
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terrim
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PostPosted: 19:50 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I had a friend who pulled under an overpass to put rain gear on and a stupid cager road the side of the road where he was, smashing in to the back of him and kept going until his tire went flat. Least to say bike gone. And surgery for him on his shoulder. Good thing is he is back riding.
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GrumpyGuts
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
These days you just have to help yourself to be seen, i.e. reflective clothing and high vis. Even when I wear these, cunt wank drivers don't seem to pay much attention. I've never had a close call as I've always been under 20mph, but I'm being real careful. Ever since I've started biking I've learned to appriciate how dangerous motorcycling is and how other people are idiots.
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Eddie Hitler
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PostPosted: 20:38 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
tbourner wrote:
Eddie Hitler wrote:

If you can avoid a car on your side of the road around a tight corner at speed, then honestly that's incredible. Most people can't. Razz


That would happen if you were driving a car as well though.


?

Confused.com
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 26 Apr 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Eddie Hitler wrote:
tbourner wrote:

That would happen if you were driving a car as well though.


?

Confused.com


If you're driving your car down a twisty country road and a car comes round a blind bend on your side of the road, you still can't do anything about it.
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