What to do with my bike? - Need advice

[ProXimaCore]

Right as some may know. My bike has a problem where it's burning the oil really quickly. I had someone look over it when I had the engine serviced for other problems that are now fixed. He's confirmed the piston rings are knackered and the engine needs stripped down. But it's going to cost me a lot and he said I shouldn't waste my money on the bike as it's just too old and not worth it. Which is interesting when he potentially could get a handsome amout of cash from me otherwise.

So I have a bit of a problem here. Do I:

1. Sell the bike as it is. I don't know how much I'll get for it. Should I be honest with buyers about the piston rings?

2. Spend something silly like £400+ to get the guy to do the work for me.

Alternative options would be getting someone I know to do the work for me for a lot cheaper. I don't know anyone that could though. Or get a new engine. But that could have anything wrong with it and I'd be taking a chance.

Even if I sold the bike. There isn't really any other bikes I'd want for that price range. Well not without them being pretty old and potentially having the same kind of problems. I was planning to hang on to the bike for another year till I was debt free then I could sell the thing and buy something newish.

So the way I see it. If I do sell it, I probably wont buy another bike till next spring. But if I fix it then the bike will be absolutely perfect but at a high cost if I can't do it myself or get a mate to help.

What would you guys do?
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[iCraig]

Well you could have it all repaired and working nicely then have something else go (I know I've been there and done that)

Or you could get a new engine, but how do you know that its better than the one its replacing? Same with a "new" bike.

I would do what you can afford now to be honest, a top end rebuild surely wouldn't be that much?

[mr jamez]

I would get a list of every single part you need, then get a quote on what they cost then have a flick through a service manual or haynes and see how difficult it is or to get an idea of what is involved. If you have a friend who is mechanicaly minded then supply him with beer and get him to help you fix it.

[Kickstart]

Hi

If it was me I would fix it, but then I am not reliant on a single bike.

It would cost a fair amount to pay someone to fix it. However you could probably reduce that bill by doing some of the work yourself, from just removing the fairing to dropping the engine out.

£400 is still cheap compared to buying a new bike, and probably cheaper than buying and paying someone to fit a replacement engine.

However if you do decide not to fix it then breaking it for spares would be the most honest way to sell it on.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[ProXimaCore]

[Kickstart]

Hi

The onyly really difficult bits are timing the cams up and getting the pistons into the bores. Neither are going to be that difficult, especially if you take your time.

I would be tempted to find the cost of a new set of rings and a top end gasket set then decide. You might well need to replace the pistons so don't order the parts until you know what you need.

I would presume that the GSXR engine is much the same as the Bandit 400, and you might find one of those manuals around (official UK import).

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Robby]

If it was me, I'd fix it. Bear in mind that if this is your first stripdown, the outlay on tools alone will probably be about 100 quid, and quite possibly that again on the rings and gaskets to do the job.

A set of piston rings is not expensive, and changing them isn't hard if you have time to do it. The important thing is to work at your own pace, and use the right tool for the job - one thing you will need is a chain splitter/rivetter for the camchain.

How much can you sell it for as is, and how can you get for it by breaking it on ebay?

Would you trust an engine that you stripped down and rebuild yourself?

[Kickstart]

Hi

You should not need to split the cam chain, but some decent tools will be required.

All the best

Keith
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Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing

[Irezumi aka Reuben]

It's a really good looking bike. I'd just fix it. Mechanics is pretty straightforward when you think about it so just get a Haynes book and start spannering.
It also depends if you could go without a bike for a year?

[swampy]

Many years ago now I stripped down and replaced the cylinder barrel, piston etc on a GS 125 after dropping a valve, with just the Haynes manual and a little advice from my old man (he's a mechanic, but was determined that I should do the job myself and gave no more advice than I'm sure you would get on here if you asked). I know that my bike was only a single cylinder, whereas you have a few more to contend with but the principle still remains the same (although the cost may not ). I took my time and tried to look on it as an enjoyable task rather than a chore, and I believe that it has given me the confidence to go on and fiddle with bikes, cars, washing machines etc that I wouldn't have had if I had simply dumped the bike a bought another.
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[Rory]

Prox, my bike maintenance course notes cover engine rebuilds if you think they'd be helpful. Also (and I know I mention this a lot!), it might also be worth speaking to that Andy Bennet chap. He tears apart and rebuilds engines all the time, and his hourly rate is pretty cheap. It wouldn't be all that hard to drop the engine out of the bike and drop it off in a car, if you felt like doing that.
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My Old CBR400RR | Bike Oil FAQ | Petrol FAQ

[stryker]

Prox, I'd carry on riding the bike for now and hope it not get worse, although your pot on the dodgy cylinder will need more work doing the longer you leave it.

Then next year, perhaps consider getting a new bike and rebuilding your current one in your own time as an educational exercise.

If you do this yourself, there is nothing worse than working on a bike and rushing because its all in bits and you have nothing else to ride.

I'd not sell the bike without mentioning its problems. Thats just damn lame and someone perhaps a first bike rider will end up very very disappointed and down hearted.

[ProXimaCore]

Right, I don't want to sell the bike in it's current state. As that's just not right.

I really would like to give it a go at fixing it myself. I was thinking I could just take the engine out and bring it into my room and lay it on some plastic sheets. Would save having to work in the cold at least. I'd have a camera I could use to take pics so I can remember what I've done for each step. (It might even make a good article afterwards.) My mate's dad has LOADS of tools. I reckon I could borrow what I need from him. He works on his own bikes alot. Might even be worth asking him about it actually.

As for no ride for the winter. I can live with that. The weather is terrible. The bike is really for fun. I don't commute on it. I have a car too if I really need to get around.

Rory - if you can get me the course notes on the engine rebuilds then that would be very helpful indeed.

Am I crazy taking on this task? I do have my Dad to help me, as he's done the same to his own bike in the past. But that was about 20 years ago.

I do have a PDF document that has diagrams of every component in my bike. It doesn't tell you how to do anything but it shows you where all the parts fit together.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[stryker]

I don't think your crazy, I was in the same situation when I got my trike. I've a good mind for puzzles but at the time no mechanics experience.

It was great working on my trike engine, a real experience. However, the very first clear sunny winters day we get you'll be cursing your dismantled bike.

[Ste]

[Big Pete]

go here and ask about where to get parts, manual etc.

https://www.400greybike.co.uk/

go to your local library and get a copy of the haynes manual for any of the gsxr series engines and read up on how to do the strip down, while there may be detail differences, the overall procedure will be the same and you will get a feel for what is required.

Piston ring sets expect to pay £40 /cylinder
piston ( if required) £30-40 each
gasket set - £40-65
sealant, valve grinding paste etc £10

and you need your own tools, see the thread about starting a tool collection for ideas, but a Halford Pro set should give you most of what you need for about $150 ish (dont forget a torque wrench.) and you will not likely wear them out in your lifetime.

Don`t expect to be able to borrow your dads mates tools, he may well not appreciate it.


Finally, thinking about this sort of job is usually worse than actually doing it. It is a good learning experience. If I was going to do the rebuild I would expect to be able to do it over a weekend.
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Trust me, I`m an engineer
GarageOfPower.co.uk

[Rory]

I'd be happy to help you. With all the work I've done to my bike recently, I've pretty much lost any fear of mucking about with spanners and bikes. Of course, it wouldn't be my bike

If we go for a run to check you exhaust, I'll bring some notes.
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My Old CBR400RR | Bike Oil FAQ | Petrol FAQ

[stinkwheel]

Yeah, providing you are methodical and take it slowly, you will manage no bother. The fiddly bits are (as said) getting the pistons back in and setting up the timing although if your old man has done a top-end before, he will be able to help you. With timing, check you have got everything right by slowly turning over by hand after and for each piston watch the valves moving as you recite the mantra 'suck, squeeze, bang, blow' if it is doing anything else, you have got it wrong.

You WILL need a manual for a bike that is at least similar.

Before each step, sit down and have a cup of tea/fag whilst pondering exactly what you have to do next. When you take bits off, lay them out in the order they came off on a big sheet of paper like an exploded diagram (you can make notes next to them like 'this spring in first' and stuff like that), I also like to draw a 'cylinder head' shape on a piece of wood then hammer in panel pins to take the nuts and drill holes to take the bolts so I put them back in the exact right place. If you think you may have difficulty remembering which way round a part goes, do not be afraid to draw arrows/write numbers on it with a black marker pen. I sometimes even stick masking tape labels to spme parts to remind me what they are.

Take digital photos (if you have a camera) of the various bits before you take them off...can be a life-saver when you are thinking 'where did that bit go'.

Be VERY anal about the camchain and not dropping it or anything else into the crankcases... to the point of being obsessive. Stuff the gaps with rags and just be REALLY careful not to drop anything down the openings...a dropped washer is capable of changing a 5 minute checking of valve clearances into a crankcase split!

I have done top-ends on a CB125TDC, Jawa, C90 and GPZ500s with no formal training, just fiddling and reading the manuals. The worst bit (as someone said) is thinking about it, expect to spend a day stripping it down and another day putting it back together. Extra time for fiddling with parts (such as cleaning of gasket surfaces, honing of bores etc. as necessary). Drink lots of tea, the time you spend planning what to do is more important than the time you spend doing it.

stinkywheely
rambling like an old man today

My C90 engine (minus crankcases which were away being machined) stripped to the gearbox and laid out neatly ready for reassembly.
https://mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/bikeshite/images/3-picture1.jpg?0.640616187668267
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[ProXimaCore]

Wow that's all really helpful guys. I'm actually quite keen to get started now.

What other things are worth doing while I have the engine like this? I have a really worrying feeling that I may have caused damage when the engine oil ran low one time. If this has done damage, I would like to check that it's going to be alright. If it at all can be fixed. It may well be fine but I would rather be 100% sure it's good.
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[mr jamez]

Well once it is out, give it a really good wash with petrol, and get it on a bench. Keep everything you take off organised into bags e.g. all nuts of the cyclinder head into one pile. Hopefully the bores are not damaged, I would go for it, would you be able to afford a cheap second bike or something to potter around on while you are fixing the gsxr?

[ProXimaCore]

[TheShaggyDA]

In addition to the excellent advice so far :-

Before you do it, have a think if there are any other jobs that you've been putting off on the bike. If it's going to be off the road, might as well give it a good overhaul.

Give your tools a good clean before starting, if they need it. Nothing worse than getting grime on clean components

Make sure the area you are working in is clean and well lit. If it's going to be the garage floor, buy a PVC shower curtain - it's only a few quid, but will save dust and grit getting on your tools/components.

Have a bowl of paraffin ready and clean each bit as you take it off.

Use freezer bags and tie-on labels to keep bits together and easily identifiable.

Treat new bits with clean oil when reassembling so the initial startup isn't dry.

If you are getting tired/frustrated, take a break, have a fag/cuppa/dump/wank/whatever. Other than being more likely to make mistakes, there's no point in pushing on if you'll start to associate any maintenance with the bad feelings. It'll make future tasks painful before they start.

Expect to make a few knuckle blood sacrifices to the bike gods. I find 1 for every 2 hours work usually placates them enough
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Current: CB500 Previous: CB100N, CB250RS, XJ900F, GT550, GPZ750R/1000RX, AJS M16, R100RT, Enfield Bullet

[i:6e3bfc7581]But still I fear and still I dare not laugh at the madman...[/i:6e3bfc7581]

[Rory]

When I was replacing my subframe I made notes as went abou what I did, what I unbolted, what went where, etc, so that 1) I could reverse the steps to reinstall everything, and 2) I had a checklist of things to make sure I'd done. I also had a flask of tea

I didn't really know what I was doing, and the Haynes manual doesn't tell you how to do anything that isn't part of any kind of maintenance schedule. Patience, a good deal of care, and the right tools will handle any sort of job. Oh, and planning - like the guys say, sit down with your dad, or even me, and describe what you're going to do and how. It'll help make sure you've thought of everything.
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My Old CBR400RR | Bike Oil FAQ | Petrol FAQ

[ProXimaCore]

Can anyone see any potential disasters happening if I was to take the engine indoors to work on it?
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Honda NSR125R -> Suzuki GSXR400R GK76a -> Kawasaki ZX636 B1H -> Honda CBR400RR NC29 -> Nothing

[stryker]

When I did the engine swap on my trike I hit a knuckle on another bolt while trying to pull a spanner. It opened up a small but deep horse-shoe flap in my knuckle and I could see right inside..... I pushed it back over then nearly fainted...... hehehehhe it was really embarrassing as I had a mate over helping me at the time.

Funny, it was neither painful nor bled much.