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Bikes are slow?

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sidewinder
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Bikes are slow? Reply with quote

Well according to this tit on pistonheads.Oldish thread but funny as he gets slated Very Happy
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=74&t=851247&mid=0
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

He is a tit, no doubt, but the fastest cars are faster than the fastest bikes. Not even a debate.
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
He is a tit, no doubt, but the fastest cars are faster than the fastest bikes. Not even a debate.


Idea Exclamation ..... Mmmmmmmmm
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

covdude wrote:
Nexus Icon wrote:
He is a tit, no doubt, but the fastest cars are faster than the fastest bikes. Not even a debate.


Idea Exclamation ..... Mmmmmmmmm


Ok, just to prevent a debate...

Sepang Racetrack, Malaysia.

Lap records:
2004 JP Montoya. Williams-BMW. 1'34.223"
2007 C Stoner. Ducati Marlboro. 2'02.108"

You'll find similar discrepancies at all tracks.
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Last edited by Nexus Icon on 21:05 - 24 May 2012; edited 1 time in total
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:
but the fastest cars are faster than the fastest bikes. Not even a debate.


Fastest street bike in production is a ZX12R taking the title from the Busa at a top speed of just under 200MPH. Not indicated. Actual speed.

There are very few cars that will go that fast and even less on the UK roads so yes. The fastest bikes are not as fast as the fastest cars around. I agree. But in my lifetime I have never been passed by one on the Motorway.

As for the OP's poster. I cant believe he actually believes that. Bikes are so fast because they are so light. What a strange person.
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pinkyfloyd
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PostPosted: 21:07 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nexus Icon wrote:


Ok, just to prevent a debate...

Sepang Racetrack, Malaysia.

Lap records:
2004 JP Montoya. Williams-BMW. 1'34.223"
2007 C Stoner. Ducati Marlboro. 2'02.108"

You'll find similar discrepancies at all tracks.


Its a well known fact that bikes are slower around corners due to lack of traction. On a car you have 4 of those rubber things in contact with the road surface (sometimes 3 depending on the corner and lunatic behind the wheel) where as a bike has 2 rubber things and a much smaller surface to surface contact area. The end result is slower around corners.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.
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Musketeer
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PostPosted: 21:16 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think OP was just trolling.. Nobody can be that thick.
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Redoko
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Obvious troll is obvious.

Can't compare the factors/conditions he did in an attempt to prove a valid point.
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Mikey3
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

we are the same species as this...... I can't chose a word.

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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

pinkyfloyd wrote:
Nexus Icon wrote:


Ok, just to prevent a debate...

Sepang Racetrack, Malaysia.

Lap records:
2004 JP Montoya. Williams-BMW. 1'34.223"
2007 C Stoner. Ducati Marlboro. 2'02.108"

You'll find similar discrepancies at all tracks.


Its a well known fact that bikes are slower around corners due to lack of traction. On a car you have 4 of those rubber things in contact with the road surface (sometimes 3 depending on the corner and lunatic behind the wheel) where as a bike has 2 rubber things and a much smaller surface to surface contact area. The end result is slower around corners.


And slower on the straights, that's the thing. F1 cars can reach 370kph in Monza whereas the world record for a MotoGP bike is a nadge under 350kph. Pedrosa in Mugello 2009.

Anyway, I said "not a debate". Wink
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not even a debate was what i was reffering to, it is a debate now .. lol
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temeluchus
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bikes are one of the cheapest ways to go fast.
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say my MX5 is as more fun on the road than my ZX6 and probably costs less to run. Fast it ain't though Laughing

On track I find them equally entertaining but it costs 3 times as much to do it in the car. For trackdays bikes are much better value but the best cars are going to be quicker.
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sidewinder
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Of course some cars a capable of going over 200mph as said fastest bike around 196ish.But what is important is how fast they can get to that 200mph mark.would a zx12r get there faster maybe.Forgetting cars like f1's which are not production cars. Very Happy
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

sidewinder wrote:
Of course some cars a capable of going over 200mph as said fastest bike around 196ish.But what is important is how fast they can get to that 200mph mark.would a zx12r get there faster maybe.Forgetting cars like f1's which are not production cars. Very Happy


I imagine a 200mph car will be accelerating much quicker than a 200mph bike once the speeds get high enough for power:drag to matter more than power:weight so it might be close...
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Last edited by T0MMY on 21:58 - 24 May 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since when did it matter something had to be heavy to be quick??

One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Does that mean his Volvo that'll "smoke" any bike isn't actually fast, because there's tractor units which are a lot heavier than his car (even though they're slower).
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andys675
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

best fun I ever had on my R6 was passing an AMG merc as he was restricted to 155

but there are some fecking fast cars out there these days, not just the exotica

borrowed a diesel civic at work today to go fetch some parts, brand new 2.2 turbo diesel, 6spd, was a surprise how well it went
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ben-B wrote:
Since when did it matter something had to be heavy to be quick??

One of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Does that mean his Volvo that'll "smoke" any bike isn't actually fast, because there's tractor units which are a lot heavier than his car (even though they're slower).
I think the point is he was just trying to get a rise...nobody is that stupid.

It's still an interesting thing to talk about although the facts are pretty plain and well known by now.
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wilz1234
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

If i was on a bike doing 196mph, i wouldnt be too fussed if a car overtook at 200. Lets face it, its hardly gonna happen
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map
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the real world on real roads rather than racetracks or drag strips my experience is that bikes are faster than cars but not by much.

For example on a trip from Carlisle to home (about 130 miles) I was making progress on the bike and only had time to park up the bike and remove helmet and jacket before the missus arrived in the car (that said she isn't slow either).

Just my take on this.
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Alpha-9
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

He was saying a bike doesn't really have any power, that all it's power comes from it's low weight, which is stupid because the low weight = more power, they're the same thing effectively

if cars were made lighter they'd be faster, simple

if you put a car engine in a bike it wouldnt work or go as fast at all
but if you put a bike engine in a car it'd probably work? Thinking
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

map wrote:
In the real world on real roads rather than racetracks or drag strips my experience is that bikes are faster than cars but not by much.

For example on a trip from Carlisle to home (about 130 miles) I was making progress on the bike and only had time to park up the bike and remove helmet and jacket before the missus arrived in the car (that said she isn't slow either).

Just my take on this.


My experience is the opposite to be honest...even in a half decent car you will be quicker on a twisty road. That said, it's hard to extract the performance out of a bike and maybe I never had to keep up with someone who was genuinely quick.

I was getting seriously held up by what appeared to be a well ridden R1 in my WRX not long ago though and he looked like he knew what he was doing. I backed off in the end as I didn't want him to push too hard and crash right in front of me.

The problem with these anecdotal tales is you've no idea how good the other guy actually is...I'm sure plenty of R1 riders will have similar stories of leaving cars for dead if they're not reasonably well driven.
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jjdugen
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Didn't Top Gear do a face off between bike and car, well. an Atom which is more bike than car. Almost a dead heat as I recall.
Cars are real world fast, no denying, until they come accross Granny in her shopping trolley. On the few roads left to have fun on, I have found that the sight lines in a low slung car are much poorer than on the taller sitting bike. Walls and hedgrows limit your view through twisting roads, on the bike I can usually see over them through to the next bend or straight.
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 22:56 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
Didn't Top Gear do a face off between bike and car, well. an Atom which is more bike than car. Almost a dead heat as I recall.
Cars are real world fast, no denying, until they come accross Granny in her shopping trolley. On the few roads left to have fun on, I have found that the sight lines in a low slung car are much poorer than on the taller sitting bike. Walls and hedgrows limit your view through twisting roads, on the bike I can usually see over them through to the next bend or straight.


In one of Clarksons old DVDs (back on VHS in fact it was that long ago) he did a car v bike race.

Yamaha R1 v Porsche 911

The car won. And it had 4WD on a dry track, so that would slow it down over RWD.
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T0MMY
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 24 May 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

jjdugen wrote:
Didn't Top Gear do a face off between bike and car, well. an Atom which is more bike than car. Almost a dead heat as I recall.


I think the Top Gear track may favour bikes too though.

My lap times around Rockingham the other week were only slightly quicker than the Caterham Graduate racers lap record (albeit without having to go through the chicane the bikes have to use off the banking). When you think how much quicker even my old ZX6R is in a straight line then you get an idea how much quicker they must be through the corners and in the braking zones. That said, a club level racer (equivalent to a Caterham Graduate racer) would undoubtedly have been quicker on my bike.
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