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KTM Adaptive Brake Lights

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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
Whilst I like the idea of a brake light that flashes when braking, but £131? Really?

https://www.gear4motorcycles.co.uk/?i=286759

I'm sure I could make one for under a fiver.
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 15:26 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Whilst I like the idea of a brake light that flashes when braking, but £131? Really?

It should only flash when braking really hard; so people can that extra bit of information before they hit you when they're braking gently.

Not saying you couldn't make one for under a fiver (little weight on a spring in oil for damping for the switch maybe); but bet you couldn't while getting it passing all sorts of road certifications, due diligence to make sure people suing you aren't likely to be successful etc Smile.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 16:26 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
G wrote:
[Not saying you couldn't make one for under a fiver (little weight on a spring in oil for damping for the switch maybe); but bet you couldn't while getting it passing all sorts of road certifications, due diligence to make sure people suing you aren't likely to be successful etc Smile.


Well KTM haven't managed it at £131. A flashing red light on a vehicle is illegal unless your vehicle is part of the emergency services so I would like to know which road certifications and diligence they have followed?.
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:

Well KTM haven't managed it at £131. A flashing red light on a vehicle is illegal unless your vehicle is part of the emergency services so I would like to know which road certifications and diligence they have followed?.


Suspect KTM get away with it as being under European homologation and with that the UK can't refuse to register it. This wouldn't apply for an aftermarket fitment which would make them not road legal. Same situation as HID lights.

All the best

Keith
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daemonoid
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
G wrote:
[Not saying you couldn't make one for under a fiver (little weight on a spring in oil for damping for the switch maybe); but bet you couldn't while getting it passing all sorts of road certifications, due diligence to make sure people suing you aren't likely to be successful etc Smile.


Well KTM haven't managed it at £131. A flashing red light on a vehicle is illegal unless your vehicle is part of the emergency services so I would like to know which road certifications and diligence they have followed?.


They'll be classing them as "a warning beacon or special warning lamp", given that quite a few high end cars are now fitted with them as standard I doubt they're illegal.
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 16:40 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
They'll be classing them as "a warning beacon or special warning lamp", given that quite a few high end cars are now fitted with them as standard I doubt they're illegal.


In what country?
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Cars have had them for a while, seen a few Insignias and larger saloons with them, they tend to come on when travelling along a large A road and there's a big queue and people clearly don't bother looking up ahead and slam on.
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daemonoid
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Joined: 27 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
Kickstart wrote:
sickpup wrote:

Well KTM haven't managed it at £131. A flashing red light on a vehicle is illegal unless your vehicle is part of the emergency services so I would like to know which road certifications and diligence they have followed?.


Suspect KTM get away with it as being under European homologation and with that the UK can't refuse to register it. This wouldn't apply for an aftermarket fitment which would make them not road legal. Same situation as HID lights.

All the best

Keith


You're right - just checked it ECE 48 https://www.unece.org/fileadmin/DAM/trans/main/wp29/wp29regs/r48r6e.pdf an enthralling read (if you have trouble sleeping).

Sickpup's got some work to do learning all these new regs!
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 16:48 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Aye, there's a few that automatically hit the hazards, too.
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daemonoid
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
sickpup wrote:
In what country?


UK
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G
The Voice of Reason



Joined: 02 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 16:50 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
See the first and fifth posts in this thread:
https://www.policespecials.com/forum/index.php?/topic/113406-flashing-brake-lights/page__st__25

Seeing that it's an official KTM product, seems quite possible/likely they are legal in the UK.
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Paulington
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PostPosted: 18:17 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
Aye, there's a few that automatically hit the hazards, too.

My car does this and I live in the UK, if they were illegal then I doubt they'd be on production cars?

When you brake suddenly and the car senses a strong deceleration or whatever, the brakelights double in intensity, flash and the hazards turn on, I quite like it, definitely brings attention to you. I think on some cars it only flashes the high-level brake light, usually at the top of the window as it's an optional light. My thought is that, as said, it may come under warning beacon/special warning lamp which would exempt it?

In doing some research it's (apparently) regulated under ECE Reg 48 which says the lights must flash at more than 4Hz and/or cause the hazards to come on. I was under the impression that the UK cannot opt-out of ECE regs? Or is that UN-ECE regs? Not sure, I'm sure someone can elaborate.

Only managed it once doing 60mph in an NSL when some bloke on a mobility scooter decided to turn down a road with no indication right in front of me, cue slamming on brakes and finding out that my hazards flash! Laughing!

Either way, I quite like having it on my car, it definitely draws attention in the situation it is designed for IMO.
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Kickstart
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Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 18:56 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Paulington wrote:
I was under the impression that the UK cannot opt-out of ECE regs? Or is that UN-ECE regs? Not sure, I'm sure someone can elaborate.


Don't think they can, but think they also only apply to vehicles homologated with these features. Hence if added to an existing vehicle these regs are irrelevant and the UK lighting regulations apply and these do not allow these brake light and hazard light tricks.

All the best

Keith
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 19:08 - 05 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: KTM Adaptive Brake Lights Reply with quote
daemonoid wrote:
Sickpup's got some work to do learning all these new regs!


I already knew about them Wink I am actually surprised that Vauxhall are delivering cars within the UK and have been doing for a couple of years with them. Mercedes for example as far as I know use this lighting system on cars since September 2011 but for Euro models only, I assume because of the question of legality in the UK.

The problem here is the same as the problem with HID's, Projector headlights and even retention of DNA by the Police in that although Europe says it is legal/illegal it doesn't mean you can't get prosecuted for it within the UK. Remember HID's and projectors have both in their time resulted in MOT's being refused while supposedly being legal.

This isn't just a UK problem. Many Trikes and modified vehicles destined for the German market are actually registered within the UK beforehand as it would be illegal to register them in Germany as they wouldn't meet TUV specifications. Once registered here you can bypass most of the regulations including TUV testing.

In fact a fair few cars now have CanBus controlled lights specifically because lighting regulations are different across Europe and no one wants to undertake the expense of a court case. Using CanBus you can for example (if the feature is fitted) have sidelights following the front wheels so that when you turn left a sidelight points left lighting up the road you are entering, unfortunately this is still illegal in the UK so the CanBus control unit turns this feature off but in can be turned back on by a dealer with the correct interface in a matter of minutes.
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