Making Progress

[parkmoy]

Richy CB1000 wrote:

[The Shaggy D.A.]

[parkmoy]

[The Shaggy D.A.]

How is that bollocks? If you've done something that's caused someone else to have to change speed or direction, you're driving without reasonable consideration for other roads users.
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[Dan_Davies]

IMO if you cant/are not capable/dont feel safe to ride/drive at the speed limits you shouldnt be on the road.
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current ride: 07 suzuki sv650s
ex rides : lifan mirage 125

[parkmoy]

[pinkyfloyd]

I'm with the Shaggy one on this. If you cannot ride at the traffic speed with a bike capable of doing the speed limit then you are riding without care for other users.

In test situations if you should cause another motorist to alter his course, for any reason, then its a fail. This means if your examiner see's a car approaching in the rear view mirror slow down because you are not keeping with the speed limit then you fail.

Or to put it another way. If you cannot ride or drive as your case seems to suggest, at the speed limit because its out of your comfort zone then you have no business taking your test.
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illuminateTHEmind wrote: I am just more evolved than most of you guys... this allows me to pick of things quickly which would have normally taken the common man years to master
Hockeystorm65:.well there are childish arguments...there are very childish arguments.....there are really stupid childish arguments and now there are......Pinkfloyd arguments!
Teflon-Mike:I think I agree with just about all Pinky has said.

[drzsta]

[J.M.]

[LordShaftesbu...]

Driving too slowly and causing a huge queue to build up behind you is not safe.

[Alpha-9]

The whole point of traffic is it flows like water, if someone is going faster than the rest then they only move up to the person in front, where as if someone is going slower they create a huge gap which slows down the whole flow.

Selfish cunt

The duel carriageway I use is 50mph limit so no problems for me on my 125
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Fzr-600 1999

[pits]

Highway code covers this in a few places,
Do not cause any other road users to change direction etc
Do not form a queue
Do not impede the flow of traffic.

You're in the wrong for thinking like that, it is a 70mph road in this case and you are doing 50mph, put that in perspective, would you do 10mph in a 30mph zone constantly? Ride to the road conditions and speed limits, if you can't manage that you shouldn't be riding.
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Stinkwheel: You have no right to free speech
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[swampy]

This is the logic used by the old gimmers at the front of a long snake of cars on single lane NSL roads and is one of my pet hates.

If you can do 60 safely, then you should. If your are not experienced enough, your reaction times are too slow or you get scared at anything over 12 mph then you really shouldn't be on the road.

There's also the issue that for some unknown reason, many people think the sign for NSL means do 50...
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"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me." Hunter S Thompson
"Faster, faster, faster, until the thrill of speed overcomes the fear of death..." Hunter S Thompson

[duhawkz]

[Cunnington]

[pendulum]

[swampy]

[Richy CB1000]

I've no problem with this debate! Seems to have touched a few sore points here and there. It's an ambigous point making progress and it's the difficult part of general driving/riding including taking tests.

I didn't realise how many arguments would be put both ways but I do find the comments interesting.

I think normality should prevail with common sense and I tend to step towards the make proper progress route as I think it's safer GENERALLY, i.e not always and there's the rub.

The new or come to that experienced driver should have the capabilties to make proper progress and that's what the examiner in his opinion was hinting at.

So we train student's to try to asses the difference between when they should and shouldn't get a move on so to speak.

As a 70's lad this is like some of us other slightly more mature people feel a little strange encouragement to hit the speed limits but in reality it's not unless it's safe to do so.

I also agree someone not capable through timidness or whatever not through bike capability should be at or around the spped limit especially in the dual carriageway scenario were talking about in this instance. If you're not capable I believe it could lead to a potentially dangerous situation, therefore no test pass.

I have been stuck behind ( in the car) a "biddy" at 35/40 mph on a NSL road with no safe overtake points due to bends or double white lines.

Now I'm not into road rage etc... but I could feel myself looking at more risky attempts to perhaps overtake and getting agitated by the slow car in front.

Is that feeling or in fact if I did act on it my total responsibility? Or as I think you could argue the car not making progress has affected my decision making ability certainly playing a part in my driving decisions.....

[Llama-Farmer]

[FantasticMrFo...]

I'm on the fence with this one.

My honda CBF 125 does 65mph, comfortably on long stretches.

I drive down the A5 from Northampton to London quite a bit and about 20 miles of that is a NSL dual carrigeway (which is 70mph if I'm not mistaken)

now by law I'm allowed on this road, and I'm not breaking any laws by doing 65mph, however I FEEL that I'm going slower than the flow of traffic and that is dangerous, I cause most vehicles (Majority of which are speeding, but some are doing the speed limit) to have to move into the right hand lane to overtake.

that said however, If I were in a commercial van or towing a caravan, the speed limit for me would be 50 or 60mph (Can't remember which as I don't do either) Which again isn't breaking the law, yet it is causing others to move into the right hand lane and overtake.

I come across many caravans on this stretch which force me to overtake to keep up with the flow of traffic, which again isn't against the law, but bloody dangerous.

Personally I feel that 125's like mine should have a bit more power and be capable of doing 80-85mph, making sticking to the speed limits and overtaking safer!

I don't think any particular type of driver or even individual drivers are at fault, I think the fault lay's with the rules and regulations of said roads.

but that's just my two pence worth.
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Women are the cause of ALL accident's, If it isn't because one has run you off the road, it's because you have spent too long checking her out and driven up the arse of the car in front!
That or she's parked on an island, on a bend, leaving a gap even an anorexic couldn't fit through sideways!

[parkmoy]

So we should all ride round to at least the speed limit if it's safe to do so. According to some on here the newest qualified driver should be as confident and have the same abilities as the most experienced. Even 'experienced' drivers/riders vary in ability and judgement of situations and suitable speeds differs. I'm sure we have all seen drivers/riders obeying the 30 limit to the letter in situations when 20 or less would have been more appropriate. They obviously thought it was OK and safe to do so. Overconfidence? A problem with training perhaps - it says 30 so I should do 30?

I think people are forgetting that the speed limit is just that - the maximum speed that you can CHOOSE to travel at. I regularly ride at the speed limit and have often driven (legally ) at well above the speed limit. That doesn't stop me driving at 50 in a NSL limit when I CHOOSE to do so, nor should it stop a newly qualified driver who doesn't feel comfortable at speed as yet. A lot of people on this forum rail against more regulation, in getting a licence for example, yet they want to take CHOICE away from others. If you want people to all travel at the same speed campaign for more trains or trams etc. Either that or robot controlled vehicles.

Alpha 9 suggests it is selfish not to do the maximum speed possible/allowed. I suggest it is selfish to expect other drivers to maintain a certain speed just because that is the speed you wish to maintain. So it slows down traffic flow, lots of things do that, leave longer for your journey. To those who get agitated by slower drivers I refer you to Section 147 of the Highway Code

Ben-B says you have no right to be on that bit of road if your capabilities don't allow you to do 60 - 65 on a dual carriageway. If the speed limit was to be raised to 90 on a dual carriageway (and that would be perfectly safe on some dual carriageways) would you then expect everyone to be doing 80 -85?

[J.M.]

[Derivative]

I think I agree with the original post in a sense.

During my CBT and DAS so far the emphasis has been on getting to the speed limit wherever possible and safe.

This is all well and good, but the standard of what is 'safe' should be down to the rider, not the examiner, at least within reason.

Clear roads, motorways, dual carriageways, et al, I can understand that there are few conditions (excluding perhaps ice) to excuse riding slowly besides some sort of fear of speed.

But when I'm riding down an unfamiliar street with parked cars left and right and blind corners due to said cars, I feel that riding 20mph is probably a sensible thing to do. There might be hidden junctions, children waiting to walk out behind cars, people ready to open car doors, the lot.

When I've passed I will not ride on those sort of roads at 30 until I've at least had one go at them. I don't feel it has anything to do with confidence - I know how long an emergency stop takes from 30, I know how long my reaction times are.

I see it as no different than, say, leaving 3, 4, 5 seconds gap instead of the recommended 2 in inclement weather.

The alternative is that you have people pushing faster than they can, gunning it on the test, and then returning to their normal habits after passing. You can't force people to have faster reactions, they'll just pretend on test, and the likelihood is nothing will go wrong in that 45 minute slot.

[Paris2]

I agree with Shaggy and Pinky.

There is only thing I want to add is this. How many times have you been on a motorway/dual carriageway and have to slam on or swerve round an artic that has suddenly jumped into the middle/outside lane? They aren't swerving around other HGVs, they are caught off guard by old biddys driving Vauxhall Agilas at 45mph.

You don't always have to drive at the speed limit, but going too slow in certain situations is dangerous.
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Current Ride: Daytona 600

[grant965]

If you can't drive safely at the speed limit then you should not be on the road.
Obviously you have to slow down to turn so that is a pointless argument...
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Ex bikes: 05 Suzuki En 125, '98 Yamaha Thundercat, '08 Honda cbr125, '05 Kawasaki z750, '03 Triumph Daytona 600, '91 Kawasaki ex250, '03 Hyosung Comet 125
Current Bike: '02 Suzuki TL1000R