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L plate on jacket

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shippy
Nova Slayer



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: 18:34 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: L plate on jacket Reply with quote
Is it illegal if I put my rear L plate on the back of my jacket or bag instead of on the bike?

Thanks
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Bezzer
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Joined: 14 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 18:39 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Yes, they have to be fixed to the vehicle. Nothing to stop you having one on your jacket or wherever as extra one though.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 18:57 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: L plate on jacket Reply with quote
shippy wrote:
Is it illegal if I put my rear L plate on the back of my jacket or bag instead of on the bike?

Thanks


You a bride to be on a hen night..... Laughing

If you have a top box, you could put it on there.
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1cyl
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PostPosted: 21:04 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
What about if its on the end of a foot long piece of bamboo thats jabbed into the seat in a fairly secure manner, just behind where you sit?
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AyrtonSenna
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Joined: 03 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I saw a kid on a 50cc moped with his rear L plate plastered to his helmet, made me LOL.
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T.C
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 25 Jun 2012    Post subject: Re: L plate on jacket Reply with quote
shippy wrote:
Is it illegal if I put my rear L plate on the back of my jacket or bag instead of on the bike?

Thanks


Providing you have L plates attached to the front and rear of the bike, and they are clearly visible and not cut down in any way, you can put what you like on your jacket.

However, if you attach L plates just to your jacket as a replacement or alternative to having them on the bike, then No, you are leaving yourself open to a £60 fine and 3 points for each plate that is missing.

And before anyone says the cops won't do you, think again. This is an old trick that has been tried many times before and it has cost those that tried it both money and points.
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Rogerborg
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Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 08:43 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 wrote:
16 Conditions attached to provisional licences

(2) Subject to the following paragraphs, the holder of a provisional licence shall not drive a vehicle of a class which he is authorised to drive by virtue of that licence—
[...]
(b)unless a distinguishing mark in the form set out in Part 1 of Schedule 4 is displayed on the vehicle in such manner as to be clearly visible to other persons using the road from within a reasonable distance from the front and from the back of the vehicle,


Your call.
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colicabcadam
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 26 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
imo an L plate, providing it meats the required size specs on the back of a jacket is far more visible than it sitting below the number plate....

i very much doubt any police officer would do you for it

however as a learner, why risk getting 3 points in the first place....
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
The Motor Vehicles (Driving Licences) Regulations 1999 wrote:
16 Conditions attached to provisional licences

(2) Subject to the following paragraphs, the holder of a provisional licence shall not drive a vehicle of a class which he is authorised to drive by virtue of that licence—
[...]
(b)unless a distinguishing mark in the form set out in Part 1 of Schedule 4 is displayed on the vehicle in such manner as to be clearly visible to other persons using the road from within a reasonable distance from the front and from the back of the vehicle,


Your call.

So reading that you could have a single double sided L plate stuck out to the side akin to those used on certain American styled cruiser bikes. As said, would depend on if visible from the front and whether the police person stopping you has had sex recently*

https://images.motorcycle-superstore.com/productimages/150/0000-Accutronix-Vertical-Side-Mount-License-Plates.gif

Thumbs Up


* I shouldn't offer as a rejection often offends. Although you could ask if they're on uniformdating.com
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MarJay
But it's British!



Joined: 15 Sep 2003
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
colicabcadam wrote:
imo an L plate, providing it meats the required size specs on the back of a jacket is far more visible than it sitting below the number plate....

i very much doubt any police officer would do you for it

however as a learner, why risk getting 3 points in the first place....


TC disagrees with that, and he's an ex traffic copper...
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T.C
World Chat Champion



Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
MarJay wrote:
colicabcadam wrote:
imo an L plate, providing it meats the required size specs on the back of a jacket is far more visible than it sitting below the number plate....

i very much doubt any police officer would do you for it

however as a learner, why risk getting 3 points in the first place....


TC disagrees with that, and he's an ex traffic copper...


Thumbs Up

Read the regs as kindly posted by Rogerborg. It states quite clearly "Displayed on the Vehicle" Nowhere does it say that it is allowed to be displayed on the rider.

And Map, if you applied your logic, then there is a real chance that whilst you would comply with the L plate regs, to make it rigid enough, you could end up getting done for dangerous condition
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J4mes
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Joined: 18 Mar 2011
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
colicabcadam wrote:
imo an L plate, providing it meats the required size specs on the back of a jacket is far more visible than it sitting below the number plate....

i very much doubt any police officer would do you for it

however as a learner, why risk getting 3 points in the first place....


One of my school mates got done for only having half an L plate on the back, it had snapped off that morning (and I know it had, as he had come to work the night before and it was there) and he got 3 points for it.

The officer obviously didn't believe him (which is fair enough I guess as I bet they get it all the time) and wrote him a ticket for it. Confused
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 22:31 - 26 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
...whether the police person stopping you has had sex recently...
T.C wrote:
...make it rigid enough, you could end up getting done for dangerous condition

Ohhhh Matron! Shocked Embarassed Wink
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pendulum This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Confusing). Unhide this post / all posts.

Pie-Roe
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Joined: 05 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
pendulum wrote:
MarJay wrote:
TC disagrees with that, and he's an ex traffic copper...

T.C. also said you could get 3 points and £60 for "each plate" that is missing. I doubt it; whether you have one plate missing or two, the offence of 'otherwise in accordance' is complete, and will be treated as one single offence.

Saying you can get done for each plate, is like saying you can get done for each individual punch thrown in a fight (multiple assault charges)... it doesn't happen.

Just because you're in or were in the police, doesn't mean you are always going to be right.


Or that you'll get 3 points for every bald tyre, how ludicrous.... Oh wait.

Rolling Eyes
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Oops, sorry, I gave a bad rating, I should have gone "Interesting". Confusing in a good way. Wink [Karma balanced elsewhere]

pyroforlife wrote:
Or that you'll get 3 points for every bald tyre, how ludicrous.... Oh wait. Rolling Eyes

C&U specifically and repeatedly refers to "the tyre", singular, but RTA 1988 41A refers to "tyres ... an offence".

On the face of it, that looks to me as though multiple tyres should be a single offence, but I'd be fairly confident that's been argued to death in courts up and down the land by now. Worth a poke though.

For license offences, well, that would be even worse. Have a sneaky ride on a 126cc+ bike on a provisional (or a 25.1kW bike on a 25kW license), apply the "everything is a separate offence" and you'd be looking at:

No front L plate.
No rear L plate.
Not in radio contact with a qualified DAS instructor in possession of his certificate.
Not wearing fluorescent clothing.

= INSTABAN. Seems unlikely, but it'd come down to the CPS/Fiscal and the beaks on the bench.
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Last edited by Rogerborg on 15:55 - 27 Jun 2012; edited 1 time in total
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pendulum
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
pyroforlife wrote:

Or that you'll get 3 points for every bald tyre, how ludicrous.... Oh wait.
Rolling Eyes

You have one licence which you're either driving in accordance with at any one time, or you're not.

You have multiple tyres.

Let's put it another way to help you understand. If you had two tyres, one legal, and the other with two sidewall bulges in two different places, would you expect two lots of £60 and 3 points then?
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Raffles This post is not being displayed because it has a low rating (Flame). Unhide this post / all posts.

pendulum
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you don't have anything relevant to say don't bother saying anything Thumbs Up
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
pendulum wrote:
If you don't have anything relevant to say don't bother saying anything Thumbs Up

It's painfully obvious that you know nothing about the subject of this thread. It would also appear that you are equally clueless when it comes to post ratings. Whilst ''telling me off'' you have given me a matey thumbs up Thumbs Up yet at the same time you have flamed me Confused
You stupid boy Thumbs Down
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pendulum
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PostPosted: 12:07 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
If you think I'm wrong, then say so and explain why instead of resulting to insults. Then there's no need for any bad ratings. Thumbs Up
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T.C
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Joined: 05 Nov 2003
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
pendulum wrote:
MarJay wrote:
TC disagrees with that, and he's an ex traffic copper...

T.C. also said you could get 3 points and £60 for "each plate" that is missing. I doubt it; whether you have one plate missing or two, the offence of 'otherwise in accordance' is complete, and will be treated as one single offence.

Saying you can get done for each plate, is like saying you can get done for each individual punch thrown in a fight (multiple assault charges)... it doesn't happen.

Just because you're in or were in the police, doesn't mean you are always going to be right.


I bow to your far greater experience and knowledge then. I also apologise to all those who I have booked in the past (according to you) incorrectly and as a result received a fine and 6 points Rolling Eyes

You are clearly a legal expert, so tell me where in law it is written down that if both L plates are missing it is dealt with as one offence?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:21 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T.C wrote:
tell me where in law it is written down that if both L plates are missing it is dealt with as one offence?

While I'm not questioning how this is actually dealt with, since you asked:

RTA 1988 87 "(1)It is an offence for a person to drive on a road a motor vehicle of any class otherwise than in accordance with a licence authorising him to drive a motor vehicle of that class."

Driving in accordance would seem to me to be a binary state. You are, or you aren't.

Presumably you'd also go for the full 4 "offences" for someone riding a 25.1kW bike on a 25kW license then? (no L, no L, no instructor, no fluorescent?)
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T.C
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PostPosted: 17:03 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:

RTA 1988 87 "(1)It is an offence for a person to drive on a road a motor vehicle of any class otherwise than in accordance with a licence authorising him to drive a motor vehicle of that class."

Driving in accordance would seem to me to be a binary state. You are, or you aren't.

Presumably you'd also go for the full 4 "offences" for someone riding a 25.1kW bike on a 25kW license then? (no L, no L, no instructor, no fluorescent?)


I made no reference to riders under instruction, the answer related simply to the offence of failing to Display L plates.

[Laws MV(DL)R reg 16 & RTA 1988 sect 87]

Vehicles. Any vehicle driven by a learner MUST display red L plates. In Wales, either red D plates, red L plates, or both, can be used. Plates MUST conform to legal specifications and MUST be clearly visible to others from in front of the vehicle and from behind. Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles).

PL10 is the offence code

The plates must be clearly visible to the front and the rear, and it is this element that defines it as two separate offence
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map
Mr Calendar



Joined: 14 Jun 2004
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PostPosted: 17:34 - 27 Jun 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
T.C wrote:

[Laws MV(DL)R reg 16 RTA 1988 sect 87]
...
MUST display red L plates. ...Plates should be removed or covered when not being driven by a learner (except on driving school vehicles).
...

Thank you for the clarification as it also settles a discussion at work. The L plates do not need removing when driven by qualified driver. That is what should indicates. If it was a legal requirement the wording used would be MUST. So when I borrow daughter's scooter I'm ok Very Happy
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