Faulty regulator?

[J.M.]

I noticed it last night really.

I notice in the morning when I start the bike that the lights pulse a little. Once I'm riding this pulsing generally goes away. The pulsing is seen in all lights; idiot, tail, front, dash.

Also when I started the bike the other day with wet gloves on a fairly cold day, I went to turn on the heated grips and the blue light flashed, which means that the voltage is too low to power the grips. I gave it a bit of throttle whilst stationary for a few seconds and the flashing went away and the pulsing of the lights also stopped.

The main thing that I noticed though, and this one surprised me, I was picking up my friend last night to bring her back to mine. Empty road, no external lights, good road surface, know it like the back of my hand. Was probably going around 80 to 90 and 8 miles in to a 10 mile journey. Looking down at the dash I notice that the brightness of the backlight is pulsing slightly. Not by a large amount but it was noticeable. At that sort of speed, I would have thought that I could have a flat battery and the bike would be fine?

The battery is just a few weeks old. The bike starts first try every morning since having this battery.

Also, when I got caught out in that freak storm the other day with hail the size of tennis balls (I'm not exaggerating, cars got dented in Hinckley, thankfully it wasn't so bad where I was!), after riding for a while in the cold and the rain, my engine at one point when I gave it throttle felt like it wanted to cut out.

I pulled over, raised the idle a little bit (now idles at about 1.5k) and revved the bike up whilst stationary. Couldn't sense anything bad at all and riding off after that, everything was fine. When going through flood waters the engine again felt a little sluggish; giving it high revs for a few seconds after sorted the problem though. It's started perfectly every time since that though so I'm not too worried. I must have done around 100-150miles since riding through the flood water on 4 or 5 different journeys; I've not felt it happen again.

Does it sound like a faulty regulator to you guys? I don't have a spare to test, I'll have to buy one if it is, hence asking before purchasing anything.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Get your multimeter out and check the voltages, before your fry your new battery. This is from my CB500 workshop manual, but the concept would be the same for a GS500. With revs about 5k, you shouldn't be getting more than about 15v. My regulator was duff, I was getting 17-21v, and after about 2 minutes of running all my lights would dim.
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Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[J.M.]

Cheers Shaggy, very helpful. I'll get that checked today.

The pulsing lights doesn't bother me as such, I just don't want to start frying batteries.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[Teflon-Mike]

We talking the GS here Jord?
When you rebuilt the front end, did you check the yokes & headstock area carefully?

lock-stops, after a spill like yours lock stops can get slightly bent, & that can mean the forks go a bit 'too' far one side or other, and that can trap the wires going through the yoke.

loom through the joke, in plastic sleeving.... bike goes down, forks trap the loom.... wires can get stressed and tug from connectors, but soon as bike picked up, stress removed they 'go back' and unseen in sleeving you wont necesserily spot a stressed connection, that then goes 'intermittent'.

though the reg/rect was tatered on the 750, and its a '93 Honda renowned for the regulators frying...

Eventually traced a stressed wire!

And yup, my old buss has been DTR at some point in its life AND was co-incident with a bent lock-stop!

Spent £45 on a ruddy Reg/Rect for the sake of a 45p spade connector!

NEVER jump to conclusions......

Also DONT dismiss the battery JUST becouse its new....

Check that too...

Where did you get it? Did it come 'dry'? Did you fill with propper acid or common error, distilled water?
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[J.M.]

Yep, talking about the GS.

I checked the front end as much as I knew how. Everything seems to be fine except for the fairing bracket. The fairing bracket is marginally bent to one side. This is removable so I could fix it; I just can't justify £70 on a new one!

With the yokes I had the bottom one removed at one point and I measured it with string to ensure that the shaft was straight.

Edit: If it means anything, the bike seems to be perfectly balanced. I can quite happily go no handed at 80mph with 0 wiggle in the handlebars. I can even slow down using the rear brake whilst no-handed.

A stressed connection is something I didn't even know could happen though. Edit: I think I understand what you mean now. That happened with my indicators on the spade connectors. Useless things!

I got the battery from Multicell in Broughton Astley. Threw the receipt & box though because I wasn't having any problems! Battery came pre-filled, so charged too. Stuck it on trickle charge until I fitted it the next day.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[J.M.]

Okay, I just did the leakage test as suggested in the link provided by Shaggy.

I don't really know how to use a multimeter. I set it to the ammeter I think and got a reading of 00.3 for leakage. That's bad right?

Below is a photo of the setting I used; not sure if that's the right one?
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

well m5 gs 5 manual says that leakage should not exceed 0.1mA, as far as i can see you have 0.3uA which is well withing tolerance
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[AlexW]

I wouldnt care about that, what volts is it putting out when running!

[orac]

yeh, and volts when off. also do you leave the light switch in the on position when off?
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

My clear lack of understanding of the multimeter becomes apparent. I didn't realise that 0.3uA was less than 0.1mA!

The bike has DRL, so the dipped beam can't be turned off. Consequently yes, they're left on whilst the bike is off.

Just been out to measure voltages again. I measured them before but I didn't think to post them because I thought 0.3uA was too high!

I attached a photo of the setting I used. With the bike off I measured 12.06 and with everything turned "on" it read 11.49, with the smallest digit going down quite quickly. By the time I picked up my phone, opened the camera app and took a photo, it read 11.48.

With the bike on idle it was reading about 11.6-7 and that was at about 3k because I had to use the choke. When revving to 5k it didn't really increase much. I didn't let the bike warm up or anything though or keep it on too long as to not annoy the neighbours.

The bike still starts perfectly and effortlessly every time though, which is something I wouldn't expect from 11.5v?
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

seems OK, could do with a bit more voltage while charging, haynes manual says 13.5 to 15.5v. amybe worth trying another reg/rec in there.
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[AlexW]

assuming it didnt even hit 12v when revved to 5k rpm, its undercharging.

New reg/rec Id say.

[J.M.]

[The Shaggy D.A.]

Depends on the style, some need to be bolted on to help dissipate heat, others are just happy in a rubber mounting. Either way, floating around loose isn't good for the connections
____________________
Chances are quite high you are not in my Monkeysphere, and I don't care about you. Don't take it personally.
Currently : Royal Enfield 350 Meteor
Previously : CB100N > CB250RS > XJ900F > GT550 > GPZ750R/1000RX > AJS M16 > R100RT > Bullet 500 > CB500 > LS650P > Bullet Electra X & YBR125 > Bullet 350 "Superstar" & YBR125 Custom > Royal Enfield Classic 500 Despatch Limited Edition (28 of 200) & CB Two-Fifty Nighthawk > ER5

[J.M.]

Definitely should have been bolted on.

Just took off the rear side panels to take a proper look. The bracket has those nut fixings on the back for a bolt to go in. Also reg/rec seems to have markings left by a washer/bolt that was there once upon a time.

Best get looking in the bits and bobs box to see if I have something that fits!

Edit: That's bolted on now. Can anyone confirm that it's definitely the reg/rec? I don't have another to try, so to try one I will have to buy one. Being currently jobless; spending money is not my top priority.
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

pick up a second hand one. if you cant get a gs5 one that is confirmed as working pick up superdream one. you will need to make some electrical chnages.

yellow wires go to the alernator
green goes to ground
red to battery
and black goes to ignition high - ie what goes live after you switch the ignition on. this is normally orange one suzuki's. the nearest and easiest thing to get to is the connector for the rear brake light switch

if you were down my way i would offer you to borrow my cb250 reg/rec i keep for emergency back up, but i do not know where you are located
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

Quite far from you unfortunately. I'm up near Leicester.

Looking on the bay, second hand is coming in at ~£30. None on bidding at the moment. Could check breakers I guess but neither could be confirmed as working. New at £70-90. OEM around £75.

I'm guessing that it would probably be better for me to run my old battery until I get the problem sorted then!

Need to figure out what caused the reg/rec to die though. Obviously I don't want to install another if it's just going to go straight away. Though, I can't be sure if it just didn't "go", because components sometimes do!
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[AlexW]

Reg/rec's die due to the heat generated in displacing the voltage coming from the stator. Basically turns electricity into heat so it can put out 13/15v.

Its pretty common for them to just blow after a few years. Theres some newer bikes which have a different style of reg/rec, although those are over £100 and require some re-wiring.

Best thing to do is get a used item slapped on there, Could put a small PC fan if you have one on it, although it depends how much heat that can throw away anyway!

HTH.

[J.M.]

Ordered one from eBay used for £30. It's more than I would have liked to have paid for a used one, it's cheaper than waiting it out and needing a new reg/rec and a new battery though.

Hopefully it'll be here in a few days and I'll get to try it. I've got quite a few miles to do between now and then though. Probably 100-200 tops.

If overheating causes it then, I can't help but wonder whether having a pillion could have caused it. I've done quite a lot of pillion miles recently. There's an air vent right next to the reg/rec on the bike, but it's in a spot where a pillion's legs could very well cover the air vent; blocking air in to the bike which could cause the air around the reg/rec to heat up causing the reg/rec to overheat? Pic attached below of what I mean.

I've drawn the pillion a little far forwards. When sitting properly the leg would cover the vent.

There should be room to wire in a fan, I'll have a look to see if there are any knocking around. I see that some people seem to drill holes in the reg/rec, like this: https://www.ducati.ms/forums/attachments/sport-classic/51048d1247288769-voltage-rectifier-regulator-fin-mod_szd.jpg
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2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[orac]

you can keep it as cool as you like, but the only the outside will be cool the silicon of the reg will still get hot. beside if it got hot and stayed hot it would be fine, its the hot cold cycles that cause the issue - like the the shitebox 360 and PS3 ylod

the issues is generally caused by the fact that by law lead free solder has to be used on electronic, the lack of lead means that there is less flexibility in the joint causing it to crack over time until you get issues and replace the item

it may also be a conspeiracy that manfactuers do it to extract money from the customers.

PS suzukis have always suffered from week reg/recs which why its common to find other (ie honda rec/reg) retro fitted to them)
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

[orac]

that the throey but you do know that the internal a filled with a silicon/resin to make them water proof. well its obvious you dont, nearly as obvious as the fact as you have never tryed to take one apart
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Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]

[orac]

its not without destroying it
____________________
Current rides - 2016 Triumph Street Triple Rx, 1994 Suzuki Bandit 400 VM, TGB 204 Classic 125cc
"with nothing left to lose, there is everything to gain. It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog"

[J.M.]