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Rossi's Tyre from Assen

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rac3r
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PostPosted: 12:40 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Rossi's Tyre from Assen Reply with quote

Bridgestone Tyre's suck!

https://i655.photobucket.com/albums/uu274/rac3r786/RossiTyre.jpg
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Hyaon
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

That one tyre manufactuer rule is really pissing me off now...Let them choose what they want for fooks sake! Sad

"Shinichi Yamashita , General Manager, Bridgestone Motorsport Tyre Development Department, said: “We saw the highest track temperatures of the Grand Prix weekend and the race was run at a very fast pace. The warm temperatures meant that all riders selected the harder front slick, while all but seven riders selected the harder slick option for the rear as well. Unfortunately a few riders experienced a problem with their rear tyre today and we sincerely apologise to those riders affected. We have commenced a full investigation into the matter and I will personally take the affected tyres back to Bridgestone’s Technical Centre in Japan tomorrow where they will undergo detailed analysis to determine the cause of this issue.”"

Not good enough.. riders are losing points because of this crap.
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fozzym
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thing is though, with the single manufacturer rule all the teams are in the same boat. I don't see Honda complaining about the tyres on Stoner's bike.

Rossi isn't exactly know for being a smooth rider, even when he was in his pomp and winning he was backing it in motox style. At the mo with that Ducati he is pushing so hard just to be midfield that the any tyre is going to get shreeded.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
Thing is though, with the single manufacturer rule all the teams are in the same boat. I don't see Honda complaining about the tyres on Stoner's bike.

Rossi isn't exactly know for being a smooth rider, even when he was in his pomp and winning he was backing it in motox style. At the mo with that Ducati he is pushing so hard just to be midfield that the any tyre is going to get shreeded.


Bollocks. Rossi is smooth when he needs to be. In his heyday he was the master of nursing tyres through a race.
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supZ
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PostPosted: 14:34 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

fozzym wrote:
Thing is though, with the single manufacturer rule all the teams are in the same boat. I don't see Honda complaining about the tyres on Stoner's bike.

Rossi isn't exactly know for being a smooth rider, even when he was in his pomp and winning he was backing it in motox style. At the mo with that Ducati he is pushing so hard just to be midfield that the any tyre is going to get shreeded.


lol that whole post is so full of wrong its laughable Smile

a) stoner is whinging something awful about the new tyres! honda are really suffering with it
b) rossi is the smoothest rider out there (where do you think lorenzo learnt to be so smooth??) and has always been a superb rider on worn tyres

always backing it in?? think you're confusing rossi with stoner..

not really sure what happened to rossi's tyre in this race.. coulda been a defect for all we know.. all i know is not many riders are happy with the new compounds
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rac3r
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely if they allowed the teams to choose their own tyres it would make them all more competitive?
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WannaBeDude
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PostPosted: 15:36 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zombie tyre ? Cool
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Jim Mc
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

They had the same problem in Formula 1 a couple of years ago on the American circuit, temps were too high, only the teams who had alternative tyres were able to take part. End result? F1 abandoned Bridgestone and switched to Pirelli.
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Nexus Icon
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PostPosted: 17:58 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Mc wrote:
They had the same problem in Formula 1 a couple of years ago on the American circuit, temps were too high, only the teams who had alternative tyres were able to take part. End result? F1 abandoned Bridgestone and switched to Pirelli.


Hmmm, not quite. It was 2005 and the tyres were supplied by Bridgestone and Michelin. The Michelin runners, well Ralf Schumacher, had problems on the banking at Indy and, as a result, all of the Michelin runners had to pull out of the race and handed Ferrari the win with only the three Bridgestone teams completing the race.

Bridgestone were contracted to take over as the sole supplier a year later, completing their contract from 2007 to 2010 before withdrawing. 2011 was when Pirelli then got the gig.
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Wafer_Thin_Ham
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PostPosted: 18:32 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jim Mc wrote:
They had the same problem in Formula 1 a couple of years ago on the American circuit, temps were too high, only the teams who had alternative tyres were able to take part. End result? F1 abandoned Bridgestone and switched to Pirelli.


IIRC that was due to the diamond cut surface at Indianapolis (at that time_, and only affected Michelin tyres, not Bridgestone. Wink
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 19:34 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't know why but It seems to me that, 10 years and more ago, it was all more fun to watch and they never had problems like this. Now, when I watch a MOTO GP race on Tv, the all they can talk about are tyres and why some riders had to slow down and so on because of their tyres.

I mean, I just watched a WSBK race, it was like 1996 i think, and all riders went like hell and no one stopped or slowed down just because of tyres.
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P.addy
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the exhaust... Laughing
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binge
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Superbikes. Thumbs Up
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symonh2000
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PostPosted: 20:24 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bring back the 500cc two strokes. Smile
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supZ
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PostPosted: 20:31 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Don't know why but It seems to me that, 10 years and more ago, it was all more fun to watch and they never had problems like this. Now, when I watch a MOTO GP race on Tv, the all they can talk about are tyres and why some riders had to slow down and so on because of their tyres.

I mean, I just watched a WSBK race, it was like 1996 i think, and all riders went like hell and no one stopped or slowed down just because of tyres.


tyre technology jumped up hugely in the 80-90s way beyond the abilities of the current bikes. now we have 250+ bhp monsters tearing down the track and tyres that havent changed an awful lot in the last 20yrs. there have basically just been compound improvements, silica rich, etc..

with the constant battle of wanting a sticky tyre for huge lean angle grip etc.. you get a softer tyre. softer tyre means it wears out quicker and with the huge power these bikes are putting down now the 2 just arent balancing any more.

im certainly no expert so i cant say this with any real knowledge but perhaps we've kinda reached the limit with current tyre technology and something different that is soft enough to provide the huge grip required but durable enough not to turn to mush when it gets hot? who knows eh.. only guessing Smile
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, performance increase was inevitable of course and I think that the next step is to try something new, like when they came up with radial tyre.

I don't know if it's the same in production sector as on a race track, but I've read an article about 300km/h road legal bikes and some reader asked why they don't make a tyre with more rubber on it so you wouldn't need to change them that early. The answer was, that it's very difficult to make a tyre that would be capable of 300km/h and stay stable and less material you have, easier it is to make a tyre like this.

So my point here is, that not only the power but the speed is limiting factor, if we're talking about tyres.

Maybe I'm completely wrong.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

symonh2000 wrote:
Bring back the 500cc two strokes. Smile


Eco fighters would beat you up just for saying that Laughing
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Acemastr
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Well, performance increase was inevitable of course and I think that the next step is to try something new, like when they came up with radial tyre.

I don't know if it's the same in production sector as on a race track, but I've read an article about 300km/h road legal bikes and some reader asked why they don't make a tyre with more rubber on it so you wouldn't need to change them that early. The answer was, that it's very difficult to make a tyre that would be capable of 300km/h and stay stable and less material you have, easier it is to make a tyre like this.

So my point here is, that not only the power but the speed is limiting factor, if we're talking about tyres.

Maybe I'm completely wrong.


The more material there is the harder it is to get temperature into them, that's why they are the thickness they are.
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Frost
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 01 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wear is also an issue as the diameter of the tire would change a great deal seriously effecting the gearing and geometry of the bike.
These days with asymmetric tires it should be no problem to make one that is as grippy as possible and wears evenly on any track. Random lumps coming out is a manufacturing / design defect for sure. It's also symptomatic of the bike and the way the rider is treating the tires.

https://www.eternaltides.com/miscpics/rossi_tire2.jpg

That was Rossis tire on a yamaha not so long ago. Clearly the yamaha is hard on front tires as the riders make up time on corner entry. The Ducati is hard on the rear as it makes up it's time on corner exit. Something that seemed very noticeable when Cal was behind the 3 Ducatis.
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robbieguy2003
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PostPosted: 09:00 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Without much doubt, this was a combination of a manufacturing defect, three riders - Vale, Ben and Hector all had this issue, although Ben and Hector suffered near the end.

Lumps like this are generally a defect on the tyre. For a 'working/none defecting' tyre to get so hot, chunks that size start falling off would mean the rider would have pretty much no rear grip - constant spin ups. Vales, Bens and Hectors tyres went pretty suddenly, it was holding pace with good grip until it went.

Quite a few riders came off, so with them all going full distance, it's possible some others may have suffered with this issue as well.
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shooter
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PostPosted: 11:09 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

So are they kind of dual skinned? I think it's quite impressive the tyre didn't blow with that much damage.
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LeeR
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PostPosted: 11:44 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like what Rossi said in the run up to the race at Assen:

"Unfortunately we have some problems with the lines I want to take with my bike, I want to take one line and the bike wants to take another."

Laughing
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 17:44 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

shooter wrote:
So are they kind of dual skinned? I think it's quite impressive the tyre didn't blow with that much damage.


Usually more than dual layers in modern tyre construction.
There are layers of kevlar, rayon etc. plus the differing latex compounds in a tyre.
In tubeless tyres, the soft inside layer is the tube found in a tubed tyre. The outer layer you see is a hard wearing cover.
The problems are the differing materials, although basicly rubber/latex, have to be bonded using adhesives and heat. Most natural rubber is latex (or tree-sap) until a certain amount of mechanical manipulation and heat is applied.
Tyres are made from very 'raw' materials.
That front has signs of de-lamination from extreme force of braking tearing the bond between the wearing surface and inner carcass, poor manufacturing or not getting enough heat in the tyre before heavy loading cycle on a track.
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keggyhander
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

Walloper wrote:

That front has signs of de-lamination from extreme force of braking tearing the bond between the wearing surface and inner carcass, poor manufacturing or not getting enough heat in the tyre before heavy loading cycle on a track.


It's not only the de-lamination that's the problem, it's the cold slugs. The outer surface should be one continuous band of rubber, formed into a ductile matrix during moulding. Those lumps have not melted correctly and not fused with the surrounding rubber. It is called a Brittle cold slug failure.

(I work in the polymer moulding industry)
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 19:22 - 02 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote

keggyhander wrote:
Walloper wrote:

That front has signs of de-lamination from extreme force of braking tearing the bond between the wearing surface and inner carcass, poor manufacturing or not getting enough heat in the tyre before heavy loading cycle on a track.


It's not only the de-lamination that's the problem, it's the cold slugs. The outer surface should be one continuous band of rubber, formed into a ductile matrix during moulding. Those lumps have not melted correctly and not fused with the surrounding rubber. It is called a Brittle cold slug failure.

(I work in the polymer moulding industry)


So is that why Senior Rossi wants to Re-tyre at the end of this season's MotoGP then?
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