new 2013 licence law

[Raggers]

16+ - CBT.
17+ - A1 licence allowing a full licence up to 125cc.
19+ - A2 licence allowing a full licence up to 400cc.
24+ - A (Direct Access) licence allowing a full licence for any motorcycle.

is the scheme they plan to enforce. im sorry but are all the people who make the laws complete dickheads? (i know the answer). it seems stupid. i remember having my first crotch rocket, it was a Triumph Trident 900. amzaing, and some of the best days of my life. now my nephew (who i obviously want to be as safe as possible) cant get the crotch rocket he wanted because of law. FUCKING STUPID!!
i was just wondering if theres anything i can do about this?

[FantasticMrFo...]

Nope, only thing you can do is, depending on how old your nephew is, get him through his DAS now before the age limit goes up. other than that, not much can be done.

Sorry but I do disagree with you though, I think these new law's, as ridiculous as they are (Having to pay for you licence 3 times is a piss take and that's just the start) They're there to give riders more experience before getting on a "Crotch rocket". Their intention (as well as making money) Is safety! The majority of accidents involving bikes are people under 25. the higher percentage of that group are First time riders on DAS licences, getting bike far more powerful than they can handle.

You say you want your nephew on a "crotch rocket" yet in the same sentence you say you want him to be safe. bit of a contradicting statement if you ask me.

IMO the safest route is the progressive route, starting small and taking little steps up as your skill increases.

If you can't swim yet jump in the deep end, you're far more likely to drown.

Just my worth
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Women are the cause of ALL accident's, If it isn't because one has run you off the road, it's because you have spent too long checking her out and driven up the arse of the car in front!
That or she's parked on an island, on a bend, leaving a gap even an anorexic couldn't fit through sideways!

[Rogerborg]

Sorry, this was a done deal back in 2006. The intention is good, but the implementation... urgh.

Some corrections:

16+ CBT, AM license for a 50cc ped up to 45hm/h (28mph, which technically disallows many of the stock peds currently out there, good luck policing that one).
17+ A1 license taken on and allow up to 125cc and 11kW. Gets the L's off, allows you to take pillions and use motorways.
19+ A2 license taken on a 395cc+ 25kW - 35kW bike, allows riding anything up to 35kW and not originally over 70kW.
24+ or 2 years after getting A2 - A (although some folk have started calling it A3 ) taken on a 595cc+ 40kW+ bike, allows riding anything.

Hopefully the consequences are fairly obvious, and they don't contribute to rider safety or encourage the use of sensible, efficient real world commuters in the 250 class.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Shillz]

I don't disagree with the progressive route, being on the <33bhp license myself.

What annoys me is that 17 year olds have to be stuck on a 125 for two years by law. I think the current rules work well enough, my 250 gives me enough speed to travel at road legal speeds but isn't going break any land speed records.

Also, if the government do go forward with allowing motorways to be 80mph surely if you're on there with the a1 license with a 65mph bike its simply going to be dangerous?

[Matt B]

[Rogerborg]

Got the sources for those? They're familiar, but I can't place them, and I haven't read anything recently that broke fatalities down by year rather than by age group.

OK, the big take-away point from the new regime is that a 17 year old will have virtually no incentive to do any form of training beyond the CBT.

They're stuck on their 125 until they're 19 (R125 superbike innit, well fast), so unless they really want to lose the L plates, go on motorways or take a pillion, why bother?

Then when the survivors hit 19, they'll finally get their A2 license on training school bikes, and most likely 600cc+ machines that have been restricted - or "restricted" *WINK* *WINK* - down to 35kW for their test day.

Having paid to pass their test(s) on exactly the same big bike that they'll have to use to pass exactly the same test(s) again in 2 years, how many of them are going to feel in any way minded to limit themselves to 35kW bikes?

IMO, the new regime will stop most 17 or 18 year olds doing any training or tests beyond the CBT, and will de facto move DAS down to 19, not up to 24.

It'll be a licensing, policing and insurance clusterfuck of epic proportions, that will see more random tugs by more clueless coppers, and more "Your insurance is invalid because you gave the wrong answer to the wrong question", while doing not a damn thing to reduce KSI figures because it discourages the one thing that could really make a difference: training. </rant>
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Shillz]

"Peak age for being killed on a motorcycle is 17"

If this is true (I don't actually know) it is probably because you have a load of young people who've had just one day's training proving they can use the clutch etc out there on the roads.

Like rogerborg said, you want to encourage people to do the tests which in most cases requires extra training. Therefore by reducing the desire for young people to take a test, the chances are young people will just stick with their one days training even more and the KSI figures may get worse.

In all fairness the only difference between my 250 and my friend's 125s is the top speed and acceleration from 55+ - I can't see it being the actual 250 class being too powerful which is causing the KSIs.

[promufa]

well, is that really the EU directive or is it heavily UK influenced? I got my license in Greece (where I am originally from) and they had implemented the EU directives a couple of years before I took my tests (6-8 years ago).

The system is much simpler than this:

16-18yo : up to 50cc ped
18-21: A1 anything up to 25KW You cannot restrict bikes in Greece, it needs to be originally in that power output range. The A1 gets automatically converted to full A, 2 years after you take your tests or when you turn 21, whichever is sooner
21+: A, ride whatever you like

I have no clue how the 50cc testing/licensing works but for the two main categories, you have to take obligatory courses on the highway code / basic maintenance (5hrs iirc) and 10hrs practise on the bike you are going to be tested on. All training is to be given by a certified riding school. The total cost was something around 400E.
Also NO-ONE is allowed on the road w/o having passed a test and got a license. There is no CBT equivalent. The only flaw I see in this is if you are almost 21 you can get tested on a <25KW and go buy a 1000cc gixer a week later when you turn 21, but there is no real price difference between A and A1 so I dont see why anyone would that

I think its a rather sensible system and that was the EU directive at the time. Did they change that or is it just the UK that messed it up?
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'02 Triumph Speed Four

[carl_easykart]

To be honest I'm not being a boring young fart here,

The power of the bikes a 21 year old can go on is mental if you ask me,

See all these boy races flying round in there chavy cars think of them on a 200 mph bike is just asking for trouble, I do think let them mature abit before they sit on a rocket,

[TheSmiler]

[Matt B]

[Rogerborg]

[jamie192]

Hey, my first post in 4 years so hey all ,

I used to trawl this forum when I was 16-17 and I went from a ts50 to a zxr400. I am now 23 and have just picked up a zx636 after 5 years of not riding. I had to ride it 100 miles back to where I live and had no problems at all, few minutes to get the feel of it then a nice calm easy defensive ride back. I must say even though I have not been riding (I have been driving a car) my riding hasn't changed loads. I would not even have a bike license had they had this overcomplicated age/test combination.
However as much training you give someone and as much experience you give them they can be 17 or 47 if they are a moron and get on a 1000 and think they are Rossi they are going to have an issue. I have always been a person in a vehicle to take small steps when learning something new on the road especially a motorbike. I had a Subaru Impreza at 18 and various other turbo cars never had any accident or anything.

Ive always had the your crash that motto thrown at me but if you have a little common sense and apply it to your driving/riding it helps a lot.

I understand what they are trying to do by stopping people on more powerful bikes but we all know someone passes a test then by the time they drive their own car they forget half of it and do what they want to do, e.g crossing your hands over on a car steering wheel!

I think there needs to be a more inventive solution. A 400 at 17 was plenty of power and quite forgiving if you made a mistake, its all to easy to get a bike restricted and then take them out.
Bigger question still why all these rules imposed on bikers yet a 17 year old can pass their test and hop into a a performance car with no restrictions?

Just my 2 cents
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Ride Fast, Brake hard, don't fall off!

[FantasticMrFo...]

[Boxing]

[Matt B]

Personally I wouldn't let anybody on the motorway until they had undertaken motorway driving lessons.
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stinkwheel: He had an animated .gif of a cat performing fellatio. It's not socially acceptable. It can have real life adverse effects on other people.

[Skudd]

Back in my day yoou got a 50cc at 16y, a 125cc at 17y, passed your test on that by 18y then went to 250cc- 400cc- 600/750cc then the 1000cc by the time you were 23yr old. But usually that was self directed and peer grouped. the lad who jumped the ladder too early ended up deaded. Plus insurance and cost of the bike kept things in order.
Now it has all gone silly.
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Famous last words of Humpty Dumpty. " Stop pushing me "
Petty Anarchists look at "1984".............. The Visionary looks at "Animal Farm".

[jetski]

[Alpha-9]

[J.M.]

[Alpha-9]

I wish it wasn't done by block age rather than experience

Why is it you can automatically do DAS if you're 24 even if you have no experience at all

A logical move would be to make it so you HAVE to do a year on a 125 before you can move up, regardless of age
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Fzr-600 1999

[Rogerborg]

[Shielder]

[moonzoomer]

Could be worse, you could be restricted to driving or riding at 45 mph while learning and restricted to 45 mph for the first year after passing your test, makes motorway travelling a pain in the as as well as being bloody dangerous, stupid law imo .

[moonzoomer]

New driving rules (N.I) also on the cards for next year include..

A full year of driving lessons before being allowed to sit the test.
Once the test is passed you will not be allowed to carry passengers under 21 years old if the driver is under 21 years old unless immediate family.
The old "R" plates are to be replaced with a new compulsary "N" plate.