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Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint diagram

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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint diagram Reply with quote
Alright first off, couple days back I was riding about at the speed limit, when a biker overtakes, in a 40 zone, 2 lanes, he must of been going around 55 I'd say at the most. Now at the end of the road there was a couple of police with radar etc... Not a van just the handheld guys. I saw them a couple hundred yards away and knew this guy was going to get pulled, and sure enough one of them stepped out in preparation to, I assume, pull the biker. But I think the biker clocked them and made a right before hand into another road, as I went past the police they were just back to scanning more traffic I think. Here's the paint diagram

https://oi47.tinypic.com/dyrmg0.jpg

He took that right there, I think he was going that way anyway as he had overtook me into that lane, but he was definitely speeding. Since they didn't get his front registration, would he get done for that? I've never understood why bikes don't actually have front plates? Sorry for being so ignorant, just curious, as if he was a car they would of probably got his registration and just sent him the ticket in the post I assume? I've been pondering the situation ever since.

And second question, average speed cameras. There's a 10 mile stretch of them near me on a road I take regularly. Now I'm always cautious of them and stick to 60 dead on, and 30 through the villages, as I should, but there are constantly cars flying past me at way more than 60, how are they not continually getting done by the average speed cameras?

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Walloper
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PostPosted: 22:07 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint dia Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
Alright first off, couple days back I was riding about at the speed limit, when a biker overtakes, in a 40 zone, 2 lanes, he must of been going around 55 I'd say at the most. Now at the end of the road there was a couple of police with radar etc... Not a van just the handheld guys. I saw them a couple hundred yards away and knew this guy was going to get pulled, and sure enough one of them stepped out in preparation to, I assume, pull the biker. But I think the biker clocked them and made a right before hand into another road, as I went past the police they were just back to scanning more traffic I think. Here's the paint diagram

https://oi47.tinypic.com/dyrmg0.jpg

He took that right there, I think he was going that way anyway as he had overtook me into that lane, but he was definitely speeding. Since they didn't get his front registration, would he get done for that? I've never understood why bikes don't actually have front plates? Sorry for being so ignorant, just curious, as if he was a car they would of probably got his registration and just sent him the ticket in the post I assume? I've been pondering the situation ever since.

And second question, average speed cameras. There's a 10 mile stretch of them near me on a road I take regularly. Now I'm always cautious of them and stick to 60 dead on, and 30 through the villages, as I should, but there are constantly cars flying past me at way more than 60, how are they not continually getting done by the average speed cameras?

Cheers guys Thumbs Up


Bike don't have front reg plates as they are not required to wear them. Cause they look ghey.

And... Folk who drive at or under the speed limit (i.e. slow down for them) Ave Speed cameras must be 'overtaked' at a speed that doesn't trip the detector. (Speed limit plus 10% plus 1MPH)
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
So that guy won't get 3 points and 60 quid for that?

So you have to ride past them at a speed under the trigger point, and then it wont activate them and you can theoretically rag it in between the cameras? That can't be right surely?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
So that guy won't get 3 points and 60 quid for that?

So you have to ride past them at a speed under the trigger point, and then it wont activate them and you can theoretically rag it in between the cameras? That can't be right surely?


I see no point in cameras in the middle of nowhere that slow traffic to below the limit as folk don't know or understand what the speed limit means to them.
I am not advocating for speeding but FFS I wish folk would not brake for cameras.

Most folk speed up between cameras. (and at places where cameras are absent) That is how effective cameras are at controlling speed.
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
skylineonfire wrote:
So that guy won't get 3 points and 60 quid for that?

So you have to ride past them at a speed under the trigger point, and then it wont activate them and you can theoretically rag it in between the cameras? That can't be right surely?


I see no point in cameras in the middle of nowhere that slow traffic to below the limit as folk don't know or understand what the speed limit means to them.
I am not advocating for speeding but FFS I wish folk would not brake for cameras.

Most folk speed up between cameras. (and at places where cameras are absent) That is how effective cameras are at controlling speed.


Oh I agree, I don't see the point in it either, I just figured they took photos of every vehicle, or at least registered the plate, and then as they past through the next set if they were clocked at over the speed limit, they were photographed and issued a penalty notice.
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map
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
...Most folk speed up between cameras. (and at places where cameras are absent) That is how effective cameras are at controlling speed.

I have seen after a speed camera and also coming out of an average speed camera zone a copper with a radar gun just to catch those speeding up again.

Not sure if this is the norm or if now practised given proposed/implemented job/finance cuts.
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Any thoughts r.e my first question about the speeder?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 23:42 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
Any thoughts r.e my first question about the speeder?


He was most probably followed by the chase car and done up the gary by both officers.
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pendulum
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PostPosted: 23:44 - 15 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
He probably got away with it. If they didn't go after him, and you didn't see them on the radio (they may have had another unit down that road waiting to catch people that see the police and turn off) then chances are he wasn't worth their while to go after.

They would pretty much have dealt with him at the time if they were going to do him for the speeding. (Whether in a car or bike).
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 01:41 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
wouldn't they check CCTV etc in the area at that time for his registration number?
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P.
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PostPosted: 08:21 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
wouldn't they check CCTV etc in the area at that time for his registration number?


Effort.

So no.
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iooi
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PostPosted: 08:42 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
What they might have done is make a mental note of his gear/bike and then keep a eye for him later on to pull over. Or if caught later does not get a warning, simply straight to ticket.

Bikes no longet have front plates as they are dangerous to pedestrians...
Take a look at a old bike with one, and you will see exactly why.

Average cams work by taking a pic of plate with time and then another one as you exit the area.
It then matches up the 2 and works out the average speed.

Reason people may not get pulled is many. They may not be on, they may have joined after a cam and therefor is nothing to work their speed from.
To actually getting a ticket.....

Beware of what Walloper says.....
They are triped as you go through, no matter what speed you are doing.
He also likes to offer the 10% +1 mph as a way of not getting a ticket.
This is a guideline but.....

You could be pulled for 1 mph over the limit if they felt like it.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
What they might have done is make a mental note of his gear/bike and then keep a eye for him later on to pull over. Or if caught later does not get a warning, simply straight to ticket.

Bikes no longet have front plates as they are dangerous to pedestrians...
Take a look at a old bike with one, and you will see exactly why.

Average cams work by taking a pic of plate with time and then another one as you exit the area.
It then matches up the 2 and works out the average speed.

Reason people may not get pulled is many. They may not be on, they may have joined after a cam and therefor is nothing to work their speed from.
To actually getting a ticket.....

Beware of what Walloper says.....
They are triped as you go through, no matter what speed you are doing.
He also likes to offer the 10% +1 mph as a way of not getting a ticket.
This is a guideline but.....

You could be pulled for 1 mph over the limit if they felt like it.


Extremely unlikely to get pulled for 1mph over the limit. As it is difficult/awkward for a prosecution to prove it in court. That is why, although police record you doing 87mph, they will do you for 85 or less as they have corroborating evidence (possibly three or more calibrated readings over a short time.) to support the charge that you were driving above the posted speed limit Very Happy

I never said it was law. It is what authorities use and calibrate the cameras to record over speeding at for a guaranteed conviction. There are very few cases (overall) where people have challenged this and won.

Average speed cameras will not 'normally' be placed so they miss a junction. They will be sited to pick up all lanes and prevent folk dodging them.
They can record a vehicle's speed whether in lane one, two or three and even if vehicles switch lanes.
There is no escape.
They are not daft. Missing a junction would lose them £££ (I mean not help road safety as much.)

I have been passing Ave Speed/Gatso/Truvelo cameras for years at the speed limit +10 + 1mph and not had a ticket yet. All over the country.

I have been awarded tickets for 35 in 30s. (Stupidly not watching speed carefully)
I get tickets for 35 in a thirty because the cameras are set to record speed above 30 MPH +10% +1 MPH = 34 MPH because this is what they all get set to trip at.

The advice given to not get a ticket is: Drive at the posted limit and consider the +%10 + 1MPH only as a margin of 'safety'. If you do as I do and ride/drive on the upper limit or grace the chances are you slip over this and get sent to the Big House/fined.

I set cruise controls to the max permitted speed and I've not been done yet.
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 09:47 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
What they might have done is make a mental note of his gear/bike and then keep a eye for him later on to pull over. Or if caught later does not get a warning, simply straight to ticket.


They can do this? Without any photographic evidence, and without any real evidence that it was that individual, days later?
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pendulum
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PostPosted: 09:50 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
wouldn't they check CCTV etc in the area at that time for his registration number?

If you'd committed a murder, yes.
Not for something as minor as that.
They probably just accepted that he got away. If they were bothered about getting him, they'd have gone after him.

Check out the recent thread on here where a car pulled out on a biker and left the scene, the police turned up and said there was nothing they could do, they didn't even bother to check the ANPR system / CCTV for a hit and run.

Stop worrying, you won't hear anything about it Wink
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map
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PostPosted: 10:04 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
Extremely unlikely to get pulled for 1mph over the limit...I get tickets for 35 in a thirty because the cameras are set to record speed above 30 MPH +10% +1 MPH = 34 MPH because this is what they all get set to trip at...

FYI there used to be a speed camera around Telford (Dawley maybe?) that was not 'owned' by the police but set by the local council. It was set at bang on the legal limit, none of this +10% lark. There were many complaints. Not sure if it's still there or if any others like it around the country.

Walloper wrote:
I set cruise controls to the max permitted speed and I've not been done yet.

A friend of mine has one of that type on his car. He does say it's useful around town with the cameras. He doesn't have to worry. Foot to the floor and you can only do 30mph (or whatever's set). Mine's the older minimum speed cruise that's useful in average speed camera setups but that's about it.

I find keeping at 30mph on the bike is a bit of a challenge and can't be safe having to view the clocks so often. Mind you a little test shows the bike is probably running on idle jets as in top gear 30mph = 1250rpm (approx). It idles happily at 1000rpm (ish, depends on temp. etc.).

Do the average speed cameras around Nottingham catch anyone? As whenever I've been through the traffic has been so bad there's no chance of getting to the speed limit let alone exceeding it.

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iooi
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PostPosted: 10:09 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
iooi wrote:
What they might have done is make a mental note of his gear/bike and then keep a eye for him later on to pull over. Or if caught later does not get a warning, simply straight to ticket.


They can do this? Without any photographic evidence, and without any real evidence that it was that individual, days later?


You not seen the little books they all carry with info in..

They go back update the system.

How else do you think that they know someone has been warned before ?
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
map wrote:
Walloper wrote:
Extremely unlikely to get pulled for 1mph over the limit...I get tickets for 35 in a thirty because the cameras are set to record speed above 30 MPH +10% +1 MPH = 34 MPH because this is what they all get set to trip at...

FYI there used to be a speed camera around Telford (Dawley maybe?) that was not 'owned' by the police but set by the local council. It was set at bang on the legal limit, none of this +10% lark. There were many complaints. Not sure if it's still there or if any others like it around the country.


Damned Labour councils.. Laughing

It would be easy to challenge a ticket for 31 in a 30 as English Law is Case Law so other cases would be used to demonstrate how unjust the +1 over the limit is.

Some bunch of idiots in control I bet.
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 10:22 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:


They can do this? Without any photographic evidence, and without any real evidence that it was that individual, days later?


You not seen the little books they all carry with info in..

They go back update the system.

How else do you think that they know someone has been warned before ?[/quote]

Oh I'm sure they could pull the guy if they recognised him a few days later and say "we know you were speeding etc" but surely they couldn't actually issue him a ticket since they've no actual evidence it was him, lots of people ride black bikes with black leathers etc...??
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iooi
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
No they could not give him a ticket for that offence. But his card would be marked and should he crop up again. There would be no mercy.

A lot would depend on how good the police were at picking out details to ensure they were picking on the right guy.

Going back a bit a guy was taking the piss on speed cams as he was sure that they did not have his number plate as they were all front facing.

Did not take long for the police to track him down and ensure he was brought to book....
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skylineonfire
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PostPosted: 10:57 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
No they could not give him a ticket for that offence. But his card would be marked and should he crop up again. There would be no mercy.

A lot would depend on how good the police were at picking out details to ensure they were picking on the right guy.

Going back a bit a guy was taking the piss on speed cams as he was sure that they did not have his number plate as they were all front facing.

Did not take long for the police to track him down and ensure he was brought to book....


Oh yeah I can imagine that, plus they'd have photos of the front of his bike a bunch of times. I've seen a few bikers going through my village with two speed cameras, and they've absolutely pinned it past the front facing ones, got a flash, I don't really see how they can get away with it for long.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:07 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
iooi wrote:
No they could not give him a ticket for that offence. But his card would be marked and should he crop up again. There would be no mercy.

A lot would depend on how good the police were at picking out details to ensure they were picking on the right guy.

Going back a bit a guy was taking the piss on speed cams as he was sure that they did not have his number plate as they were all front facing.

Did not take long for the police to track him down and ensure he was brought to book....


I think he went past the same camera on his way to work and even flipped it the bird too. Polis sat in a traffic car one morning and nabbed the stupid twat. Same anorak and bike etc.

I would have loved to have watched the fat bastart squirm in the back of the BMW whilst the polis showed him his 'portfolio' of Gatso snapshots. Twisted Evil
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 11:21 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint dia Reply with quote
skylineonfire wrote:
And second question, average speed cameras. There's a 10 mile stretch of them near me on a road I take regularly. Now I'm always cautious of them and stick to 60 dead on, and 30 through the villages, as I should, but there are constantly cars flying past me at way more than 60, how are they not continually getting done by the average speed cameras?


Maybe they stopped/planned to stop in a layby somewhere between the 2 cameras.

How is it a 10 mile stretch? Average cameras are normally placed a mile apart if that, and there's no way they'd have them across differing speed limits.
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Walloper
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint dia Reply with quote
tbourner wrote:
skylineonfire wrote:
And second question, average speed cameras. There's a 10 mile stretch of them near me on a road I take regularly. Now I'm always cautious of them and stick to 60 dead on, and 30 through the villages, as I should, but there are constantly cars flying past me at way more than 60, how are they not continually getting done by the average speed cameras?


Maybe they stopped/planned to stop in a layby somewhere between the 2 cameras.

How is it a 10 mile stretch? Average cameras are normally placed a mile apart if that, and there's no way they'd have them across differing speed limits.


What if they haven't taken their medication but??/
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tbourner
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 16 Jul 2012    Post subject: Re: Couple questions on speeding and speed cameras paint dia Reply with quote
Walloper wrote:
What if they haven't taken their medication but??/


What's a 'medication but'?
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