Collection charges for stolen scooter, ever tested in court?

[D O G]

My mate has just had his scootay nicked. It was then found by the police a few hundred yards away, dumped by the chav who thought he could fuck the lock with a screwdriver and hoon about on a 125 4 stroke scootay.

Anyway, so now he's facing all the charges for collection and storage which helpfully doesn't open until Tuesday, so he has to pay until then.

My question is whether these charges are legally enforceable? He has signed no agreement to pay these charges, has had no opportunity to negotiate them, their terms or the service provided, so on what basis is he required to pay?

Of course the kicker is that they won't return his property until he pays them, but that is really extortion...

So, my question is...has anyone ever tested this in court? I.e. demanded that they have their property returned to them, without having to pay the charges?

[J.M.]

I was wondering about this earlier too with the "free recovery" on motorways where I think you have to pay a release fee.

What would happen if you turned up on to the property and just rode the scooter away?

It's not theft, it's yours. It's on their property but you're reclaiming your own property. Trespassing at the most, surely?

I'll be watching this thread to see how it pans out. I think the recovery fee is crazy, especially when 9 times out of 10 you could recover the bike yourself if you were given the option to.
____________________
2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[D O G]

[Polarbear]

When my daughter had her 125 stolen & torched it was recovered by the police approved recovery service and I was contacted and told I had to collect it for £200 odd quid. I said F.off, keep it. They told me that the daily charges would keep accrueing and I would be liable for them.

I'm sad to say I chickened out, paid the thieves and took back a burnt out 125.

Not my finest hour, but I can't afford to take the risk of a huge hit in charges if I had lost.
____________________
Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[swampy]

[Rogerborg]

It's civil, it's a legal grey area, and I'm not aware of anyone sorting these thieving ghouls out in court. Yet.

I'd suggest - and this is not legal advice - that your case is against the actual yard that's holding your bike. Not against Plod, against the blokes-with-rotties that demand hundreds of £££s off of you to give your bike back.

Where's your contract with them? Why are they denying you access to your vehicle?
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[plugger147]

They don't open til Tuesday? I would be visiting the police station and demanding to speak to somebody about that, the local firms that have police permission to rob customers are all open 7 days a week and have staff operating the control centre. Are the police not expecting to seize any vehicles this weekend or are they just gonna wait til Tuesday to collect them...
____________________
Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[D O G]

[G]

If you know it's been stolen, contact the police and tell them you will collect.

If the police didn't get your £19k Ducati collected and it was stollen again, everyone would be having a go at them.

While it is pretty good money for the recovery people, remember you're paying not just for the building (see business rates and insurance for buildings that can take a good few cars), but for someone to be up all night not collecting any vehicle until they get the call for yours.

When I reported a vehicle stolen on a Friday, I wasn't told until the Saturday that the it was recovered before I called.
I could at least get the storage charges refunded as it was their mistake; but not the collection charges.

[D O G]

I have known for years that this happens, but obviously the closeness of the situation brings it to the fore.

Tbh, I'd genuinely rather just pay the extra £5 a year tax to fund collection charges than have victims have to pay it.

It's 'OK' for my mate - he has the ££ and another vehicle, but for many it may be unaffordable, and they may need the vehicle for work.

To be charged only because you were a victim of crime is fucking shocking.

[plugger147]

The recovery charge isn't what I'd be arguing about, not being able to collect til Tuesday and being charged for it would.
____________________
Tristan the wrote: just whipped off my trousers to find a big bruise on my arse, caused by matt rear ending me...

[plugger147]

[Kickstart]

Hi

I do agree that it is a fairly dodgy rule. Being stolen from is bad enough, but being stolen from again to add to the costs makes it even worse.

[J.M.]

[Rogerborg]

Hello, Mr D. Advocate? This is the filth. Good news! We've recovered your burgled television, computer and jewellery!

Now, if you'd just care to pop along and pay the £200 recovery fee plus £20 a day charges...

Different how?

I honestly wonder if you'd be better off just telling your insurers that it was stolen and see if they piece it together. I'm betting not.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[J.M.]

Please do note that I don't know what I'm talking about and my post is entirely speculation. Whilst the ideas I post are theoretically valid in my mind, I have no knowledge on the legal or real world accuracy or actual success of them.

Extending from the idea outlined in the last few pages of this thread: https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php?t=741653

Essentially the guy who was being harrased sent the company an invoice for all of the calls/texts and they ended up paying it.

Could OP's friend not do a similar thing?

Write the people holding the scooter a letter stating that as of xx/08/2012, if the vehicle is still in their possession then they are entering a contract to rent this vehicle from you at a charge of £100 per day until the vehicle is returned. Where they choose to store the vehicle during this rental period is their choice but they will be liable for all costs incurred during the rental term. Also personally delivering the letter so that you can be sure it has been delivered.

Private parking companies seem to have success by firing off random letters. Why can't we do the same?
____________________
2004 R1 & 2018 XSR900

[G]

I imagine that they would be charging if a specialised vehicle was required to recover the TV in the middle of the night; which contained flammable materials and required expensive insurance to store.

I'm not saying it's a good rule; but the question is "who should pay"?
If we're talking independent contractors doing it, it has to be the public really.
Otherwise, I'm sure a lot of places would have a look around think "bit empty here; Tom mate, go drop your car down the road and report it stolen." They get paid out of public coffers for that.
So, it'd have to be run by a Police/government department. And who's going to get that through parliament; that Police money and time is being used to move smashed up vehicles around when they spend half their time filling in paper work and catching speeders as it is!

[Rogerborg]

I'm OK with the principle, if a reasonable attempt has been made to contact the keeper/owner and ask if they want to collect their vehicle.

Too often though, it seems that the first the owner hears about it is that a commercial outfit has "helpfully" seized their property and is holding it to ransom for usurious amounts. Being done a favour shouldn't feel like getting mugged.

Expensive insurance for the compounds? The local long stay airport parking is £8.50 a day from NCP muggers, or £5 from anyone else, and that includes a shuttle bus rather than a "here's your keys, now sod off before I set Fang on you".

In best let's-you-and-him-fight stylee, I'd be minded to file a FOI with the local coppers obliging them to disclose the nature of the relationship between the recovery company and the themselves, on both a corporate and personal level. How much does the force receive in kickbacks and where does it go? Recovery company owner related to any force big-wigs, by any chance?

It's a heavily tilted playing field though, with 9/10ths of the law ranged against you.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[anthony_r6]

When mine was stolen they came to my house and told me to come get it (it wasn't very far away and I was able to push it back). I agree that the recovery charges are the last thing you need when your bike has just been stolen, but I can't see the fees being changed anytime soon.
____________________
Ted : "Maybe he's agoraphobic."
Dougal : "Jack scared of fighting? I don't think so, Ted."

[dungbug]

If your mate will be putting a claim through his/her insurance then the insurance company will probably cover it.
When my last ped was pinched it ended up being 'recovered' and put into storage, this was on the Thursday. Couldn't pick it up on Friday as forensics needed to check for prints so had to wait until the following Monday. Called the pound (irony right there ) & was told the 'release' fee was £120 all in (iirc). I knew it was a wreck and would be written off so I called my insurer, explained that it was recovered by the law and was in storage. Was told be insurer that if I want to claim I need to remove the ped from storage asap, I said I wasn't paying the release fee and was told they'd cover the release fee........They did (eventually).

It's bollocks though, I argued with the law that it was my property that was taken & I shouldn't be accountable for the cost of recovery. I'd have happily gone & picked the fecking thing up from the woods where they caught the little shit riding it. Basically you're stuffed eitherway, you want it back to fix it yourself without going through the insurance & you pay. You want to claim on the insurance and you still have to pay, sure my insurer 'covered' the cost but I didn't see that money back for over 3 months from when I paid the release fee. They'd paid me for the ped but had 'missed' adding the release fee costs.

I thought when the Police found your push bike you went to the station & picked it up FOC. I guess there are people that don't bother picking up motorbikes/peds due to the cost on future insurance policies so the 'pound' probably doesn't lose out whether vehicles are picked up or not.

This is a real grey area though as Roger said, my house was closer to where my ped was found than the pound it went to.....Common sense would have been to drop it off at my house than transport it nigh on 20 miles away.
____________________
CBT: Pass 25/06/2011 Theory Test: Pass12/06/2012 Mod 1: Fail 08/07/2012
Mod 1 Retest: Pass 15/0702012 Mod 2: Pass 03/08/2012
Suzuki GN125 (Sold) ~ Current bike: Yamaha YZF 600R Thundercat