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South African Marikana miners charged with murder

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Nick 50
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 30 Aug 2012    Post subject: South African Marikana miners charged with murder Reply with quote
270 workers arrested at South Africa's Marikana mine have been charged in court with the murder of 34 of their colleagues shot by police.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19424484

Shocked say what................
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D O G
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PostPosted: 23:02 - 30 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I know, just pure insanity really. Little more to be said than that.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 30 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
I gather it's a law left over from the apartheid era where they could blame rioters for 'forcing' the police to shoot them Shocked .

They must be effing mad as it's surely just going to make things worse.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 09:12 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Withdrawal of labour is one thing. Forming an armed mob and threatening mayhem is quite another.

Coppers should have just let themselves be hacked to bits with machetes, should they?

Join an armed mob screaming "Kill whitey plod", own the consequences.
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 09:17 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
2 threads on the same topic in the same current affairs and the same link?

Oh well, will just copy my reply

Just wait. Forensic experts are not agreeing at all.

The new darkie woman head of police revealed her incompetence by ordering due what you need to do. She has no police experience and revealed her incompetence. This is only first attempt cover up. It won't stick.

They haven't identified who gave the order to shoot. My bet is no one. They need a scape goat real bad. Blame it on apartheid isn't going to work here. It was darkie being shot by darkie led police under an ANC government. The real cause is ill disciplined incompetent irresponsible corrupt leadership. But easier to blame it on miners striking for a living wage. Next will be blame the british based mining company. All our SA mining companies have long fled
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 09:29 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
I gather it's a law left over from the apartheid era where they could blame rioters for 'forcing' the police to shoot them Shocked .

They must be effing mad as it's surely just going to make things worse.


It is quite telling that the darkie government must resort to an apartheid law to justify how to handle darkies on the rampage. They are in effect admitting that the only way to handle their people is the way whitey did it: the barrel of a gun.


Roger, the problem with the self defence arguement will come in with the forensics, which are showing most of them were shot in the back. The other problem is that there is a regulation in place stating that you cannot discharge your weapon unless shot at first or can show your life was in immediate danger. Any police officer who discharges his weapon is automatically investigated. It is not a charge, just procedure. The white ones anyway. It is glaring that these policemen are seemingly immune from this. And they didnt fire once but repeatedly. Now they are not even taking statements from witnesses as to what happened. They are rather jailing the witnesses. Strange, is it not? But someone must be made to blame.

I think some high level ANC darkie is somehow responsible and they will do anything to deflect the light being shown on the right places.

Another thing to consider is that for the past few years there has been increasing friction between the unions and the ANC, and violent strikes. Look at the toolling saga and the strikes. So much so that the ANC made a ruling at the unions are responsible for financial damage during a riot.

It can be that the unions wanted to up the pressure, or that the ANC figured lets put them in their place. It is a african thing: dont tolerate opposition. The Strong Man rules, and no criticism is entertained. Where in africa do you have opposition politics?

The end of the day, the darkies will be darkies: violent savages who quickly resort to violence.
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D O G
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PostPosted: 09:45 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Withdrawal of labour is one thing. Forming an armed mob and threatening mayhem is quite another.

Coppers should have just let themselves be hacked to bits with machetes, should they?

Join an armed mob screaming "Kill whitey plod", own the consequences.


Being charged with actual murder is a bit strong though. Perhaps charge them with forming an armed mob and threatening mayhem instead....
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 09:48 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
D O G wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Withdrawal of labour is one thing. Forming an armed mob and threatening mayhem is quite another.

Coppers should have just let themselves be hacked to bits with machetes, should they?

Join an armed mob screaming "Kill whitey plod", own the consequences.


Being charged with actual murder is a bit strong though. Perhaps charge them with forming an armed mob and threatening mayhem instead....


then 90% of ANC voters would be in prison. Forming mobs and threatening mayhem is a day to day occurence.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:59 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kradmelder wrote:
Roger, the problem with the self defence arguement will come in with the forensics, which are showing most of them were shot in the back.

Well, what's the difference between a fearless warrior and a shrieking coward? About 5.56mm, incoming.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd have done better, I'm saying I wouldn't have talked the talk in the first place. Pick up a machete, or stand next to someone waving one, and you're playing for Big Boy stakes.

https://timeglobalspin.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/2012-08-15t224918z_24381471.jpg%3Fw%3D600%26h%3D400%26crop%3D1
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Imagine the hit on resources, and global prices, if everyone in the third world had the same standard of living as us. Damn, the scum at the top might have to forgo their third house just for starters!
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 12:16 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Kradmelder wrote:
Roger, the problem with the self defence arguement will come in with the forensics, which are showing most of them were shot in the back.

Well, what's the difference between a fearless warrior and a shrieking coward? About 5.56mm, incoming.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd have done better, I'm saying I wouldn't have talked the talk in the first place. Pick up a machete, or stand next to someone waving one, and you're playing for Big Boy stakes.

https://timeglobalspin.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/2012-08-15t224918z_24381471.jpg%3Fw%3D600%26h%3D400%26crop%3D1


these kind of pics are the norm. been around since I was a kid. This behaviour is as normal as baboons screching and picking up sticks when confronted. It is a cultrual learned response. Screech then resort to violence. Sharpeville the cops only killed 16 and look at the effect of that.

Miners at other mines are striking now in solidarity....but in a way the media has ensured the other miners wont face the same thing.

Lets see if the unions up the stakes and call the ANC bluff. Lets dare you to shoot again. In africa life is nothing. Malema for one is playing it for all its worth and for now redirecting his kill whitey rhetoric.

For whitey this is as good as malema's kill whitey rhetoric. It causes a split in the ANC and makes the jackals fight amongst themselves for the spoils.

I think the UK is in for a bashing. Blair was just here and there were protests for his arrest as a war criminal.
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Last edited by Kradmelder on 12:33 - 31 Aug 2012; edited 1 time in total
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hetzer wrote:
Imagine the hit on resources, and global prices, if everyone in the third world had the same standard of living as us. Damn, the scum at the top might have to forgo their third house just for starters!


Buy platinum shares. the other mines are striking and there will at least be a stock market fear which will see stocks plummet in fear of a shortage. Die Judische stock traders will make a fortune from the death of these miners.
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Marikana exposes violent union rivalry



Quote:
The deadly industrial protests last week at the Lonmin platinum mine have laid bare a fierce and violent battle for domination among trade unions in Africa's wealthiest and leading democracy.

Hamadziripi Tamukamoyo, a researcher with south Africa's Institute of Security Studies said “some have argued that Cosatu ...have largely come to represent a 'working class aristocracy' and are too involved in ANC elite politics to adequately work in the interest of the poor.”

Some digruntled NUM activists broke away to form a splinter independent union, AMCU in a bid to to close the gap.

But it is only in recent months that AMCU appeared to have consolidated its position. It quickly gained ground early this year after a six-week violent strike at Impala Platinum mine, the world's second largest, sitting on the same platinum belt as Lonmin.

Some 17 000 workers were sacked during the strike but then reinstated, after which AMCU said it had stripped most of the NUM membership to claim more than 50 percent on the its register and demanded recognition.

Violence and intimidation have become a culture to coerce workers to take part in strikes or join unions.

Unions survive on workers' subscriptions, often calculated as a percentage of their salaries.

“It's very difficult to build a very strong worker solidarity...so you use violence to bring them together. Violence becomes a tool to achieve worker solidarity,” said Crispen Chinguno, an industrial relations researcher at the University of Witwatersrand.

The violence can be linked to the post-aparthied social order, which Chinguno said bred strong trade unions, that are “covertly hostile to competition.”


Belief in black juju has also taken root and was partly blamed for the workers'defiance during a standoff with police before 34 of them were gunned down.

Local media report that a video report shot by the police from a helicopter during the strike, showed naked men lining up to be rubbed with herbs that were believed would make them bullet-proof.

“The use of muti has become so institutionalised in everything they (unions) do,” said Chinguno.


https://www.iol.co.za/business/business-news/marikana-exposes-violent-union-rivalry-1.1369583


Before blaming white capiltalist miners, the ones raping the poor are just as much black trade unions, complete with violent intimidation and witchcraft......Civilised behaviour doesnt apply here.
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oldpink
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
South Africa's justice minister has demanded an explanation after 270 miners were charged with the murder of their colleagues who were shot by police.

The decision had "induced a sense of shock, panic and confusion" among South Africans, Jeff Radebe said.

State prosecutors charged the miners under the apartheid-era "common purpose" doctrine.

The decision has already been condemned by constitutional lawyers.

In a statement, Mr Radebe said that under the constitution, the justice minister "must exercise final responsibility over the prosecuting authority".


just seen this on the Beeb website
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 12:50 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
oldpink wrote:
Quote:
South Africa's justice minister has demanded an explanation after 270 miners were charged with the murder of their colleagues who were shot by police.

The decision had "induced a sense of shock, panic and confusion" among South Africans, Jeff Radebe said.

State prosecutors charged the miners under the apartheid-era "common purpose" doctrine.

The decision has already been condemned by constitutional lawyers.

In a statement, Mr Radebe said that under the constitution, the justice minister "must exercise final responsibility over the prosecuting authority".


just seen this on the Beeb website


It may be unconstitutional but it is africa par excellence. We are the 700 gorilla ruling this jungle. Mess with us and we will kill you and charge the survivors with murder. we dont need to account to anyone. It sends out the message: do not oppose us.

Now why would state prosecutors lay a charge not in accordarnce with the Minister of Justice. So who is really in control?

Mbeki disbanded the scorpions to try and stop the investiagtioon of Selebi. Zums is blocking the investiagations of Cele and Nduli. The top ANC gorillas wil always try and silence any investigation of their own corruption and incompetence. hence this charge against the miners.

It would be interesting to see the shareholders of Marikana. I bet Ramaphosa, mandela and the usual crew will surface. the ANC untouchables.

aha. here he is. ANC shareholding in marikana


https://www.sowetanlive.co.za/columnists/2012/08/29/marikana-last-hopes
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Llama-Farmer
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PostPosted: 12:58 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
My bad... I did check before creating a thread on the topic. I just got sidetracked and didn't post it til a few hours later Embarassed
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 13:07 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
the usual troop of culprits: mandela, zuma....only mbeki wasnt cut in on this one


Quote:
A South African gold mining company owned by members of the Mandela and Zuma families is accused of exploiting its political connections to avoid punishment over its abuse of workers.

The company is also accused of profiting from selling mine assets it does not own - a claim it vehemently denies.

Aurora Empowerment Systems, took control of two gold mines just outside of Johannesburg around 18 months ago.

Today, South Africa's mining unions claim the company owes its workers more than 12m rand (£1.1m; $1.8m) in unpaid salaries.

Because of the names which are associated with this saga, we have got a barrier. ”

Since then, the company has been at the centre of huge controversy in South Africa, with critics claiming that the company has committed multiple legal and regulatory infringements, but has escaped any kind of sanction because of the significant political connections of its senior management.

The National Union of Mine Workers led a protest in Johannesburg after miners were not paid by Aurora

"They started to seriously default on the payment of salaries in December 2009, and in the following year, 2010, for the first three months, they were not paying workers' salaries at all."

The BBC has repeatedly approached Aurora to request an interview with the company's senior management, but they declined to speak or issue a statement.


Khulubuse Zuma gave one million rand to the ANC. For what reason? He gave it to them just to shut [them] up”

Recently, the ANC also delivered food parcels to the workers at the Orkney mine. Ms Nonyane holds a plastic bag of maize meal, cooking oil and sugar, given to her by the party, but she is cynical about their motives.

"They are not helping us… they just want us to vote for them," she says, referring to the local elections taking place later this month.

It was recently revealed that Aurora's chairman had made a private donation of 1m rand (£91,400, $151,000) to the ANC, when his company is yet to pay outstanding wages to its workers.

The NUM has demanded the money be handed to the destitute miners, but the ANC has refused.

And indeed the ANC has been silent. Mr Baleni says there is one clear reason for this.

"Because of the names which are associated with this saga, we have got a barrier. The ANC has been very silent on this - not a single word, not a single statement."

'Daylight robbery'

At Aurora's Grootvlei operation there is an open hole in the ground, 400 metres deep, at the mine's Ndlovu shaft.

This 400m shaft is no longer operational after the mining equipment was scrapped and sold
It is all that is left of what was one of the country's most modern mines, opened in 2008 at a cost of 40m rand (£3.6m; $6m) - a year before Aurora took control of it.

The mine has since been stripped bare and its headgear and machinery sold off for scrap, it is claimed, by Aurora themselves.

"What you see here is the best description of daylight robbery, because Aurora don't actually own the mine," says Gideon du Plessis, deputy general secretary of Solidarity - the union representing mainly white and skilled mine workers.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13275704
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kradmelder wrote:
the ones raping the poor are just as much black trade unions, complete with violent intimidation and witchcraft......Civilised behaviour doesnt apply here.

Yeah, Scargill was much the same. Very Happy
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Kradmelder
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 31 Aug 2012    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg wrote:
Kradmelder wrote:
the ones raping the poor are just as much black trade unions, complete with violent intimidation and witchcraft......Civilised behaviour doesnt apply here.

Yeah, Scargill was much the same. Very Happy


I guess for you blame whitey was blame the tories??
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